I've been watching the discussion down in "Factoids & Trivia" over the tablets--whether they should find a home ultimately back at Vindolanda or in the British Museum. At the moment, the expense of maintaining & securing them mean they'll probably be at the British Museum for the foreseeable future.

But what if... If both facilities had equal resources, where should they end up? I can see good logic for both sides. Vindolanda is where they're from; letting visitors experience them in their home surroundings is very appealing. Displaying them at Vindolanda would also almost guarantee a tourism revenue boost, which would allow more excavation & research.

On the other hand, the number of people visiting Hadrian's Wall is a fraction of the number that walk through the British Museum. London is still the "it" place that tourists flock to in Britain. If the purpose of displaying the tablets is to raise awareness of them & of the site, and to educate the broadest segment of the populace, the British Museum seems to make the most sense.

Much as I'd love to see them back "home," I think my gut leans toward keeping them in London. I'd be curious what other folks think.

- Harry

We could burn the midnight oil on this one. I personally believe in the repatriation of artefacts. So for example the Gospels should come back to Lindisfarne or Durham, the Elgin Marbles should be returned to Greece. This in turn is controversial as it would in effect lead to the break up of many collections. Having said that why should Greeks have to come to the UK to see part of their own heritage? The wider question is over funding. The Vindolanda Trust cannot afford to keep and display the tablets. Should funding nationally be reviewed? If the British Museum did not have to pay for their upkeep, then let the money come to Vindolanda. Whilst I am on my high horse, can Vindolanda have their artefacts back from Chesters Museum as well?

Duncan

Great post guys,

It is very hard to reply to such a post without being open to being liable for comments on such a delicate issue, so with great care, and naming few names or institutions (apart fromthe good old BM), read the following and get a flavour of the problem from a Vindolanda perspective. ļ

Duncan has a point that is a good one and goes well beyond the tablets. A lot of artefacts from the forts at Carvoran and Vindolanda adorn museum displays up and down the land. Most is not on display, some arrived at various collections through either dubious or confused means. This creates problems, namely for museums that hold material and have no record of ownership of that material, or ownership that could be challenged in a court of law. This is not a modern issue, rather it is a throwback from an earlier time when museum records were not what we might want them to be today. Leaving such a mess creates the circumstances where some might find it easier to ignore the issue for another day than have to confront it.

The case for the fort at Carvoran is worse still, with altar stones and inscriptions scattered around the country in places that range form a Cambridge college to museums and private collections. However, as most of these items were legitimately purchased from the landowners at the time, the Carrick family at Carvoran, they legally belong to the institutions who now own them.

What makes the Vindolanda collection so special, is that when you go there, everything you see comes from Vindolanda.

I agree with Harry that the tablets at the BM give them a higher profile (millions of people pass through the door every year). However, what the BM does not do as well as it might, in my personal opinion, is give Vindolanda itself much of a profile. Thus, they show some finds out of the context in which they were found, (a cardinal sin to an archaeologist).


Andy

Andy, to me, you reply brings up the question of proper cataloguing by the museums. Have any of the museums, especially along the Wall, have a catalogue that can be viewed or purchased by researchers and the like. Many things are not on display due to condition of the artifacts, size constraints of the museum, and often the whim of the director. From my time spent with the National Park Service in the states I know that hundreds of boxes of material excavated in the 1920's and 1930's sit in central storage without accurate write-ups. I imagine that most places where the artifacts originated may not know how much or what is still in storage off site. Cataloguing the material would be a first step to displaying artifacts thought lost or misplaced which may be important now or more so than a few decades ago.
Matt

Hi Matt,

No, not everyone has a proper record of what they have, and this will remain a problem to solve in the future. However, some good news, we know what we have at Vindolanda, and are 100% catalogued up to date. :D

We just need to wait for some others to catch up.

Andy

Agreed, Andy. Vindolanda Trust does better (IMO) than any other active excavation in keeping up to date on what is being found. There are sooo many excavations that have yet to be properly reported in Southeatsern U.S.
Matt

These are excellent points. The truth is, I -love- that everything you see wandering through the museum at Vindolanda has come from the site. It's not some attempt to put together a "theme" showing what might be found at a generic site. This is the real deal! Very rare for the museums I've been in, either in the U.S., U.K., or elsewhere. And the excellent cataloguing adds to that value.

Which brings a thought. Is this a hook Vindolanda is using, or could use, to attract attention--from both academics and tourists? It seems there's a lot that other museums could learn from taking a good look at what Vindolanda's doing right. Plus the value to the public of seeing an organized collection all garnered from one place.

I figure, if the British Museum isn't willing to give Vindolanda a higher profile, maybe Vindolanda's got enough going for it to give itself one!

- Harry

PS: Don't forget Andy, there's still my fabulous "Adopt a Tablet" idea. :P

Harry-
You must explain further the "Adopt a Tablet" idea. Anything like the "Adopt a Road" program :D

Andy-Do many academics request information from Vindolanda's catalogues?

I agree with Harry that it is much better to wander Vindolanda's museum and knowing that everything I am seeing has come from the site.
Matt

Hey Matt. Actually I was wrong, it was "adopt a shoe." The basic idea is giving people a chance to pay the cost of conserving one of Vindolanda's thousands of leather shoes. You know, maybe give them a pamphlet describing the process, a picture or two of it being conserved, a little "certificate of appreciation" along with a nice glossy picture of the finished shoe once it's done.

Some of the guys there loved the idea. But some worried that it might be more trouble than it's worth. You know, getting the wacky people that show up thinking they now have a right to see and hold their shoe, or that it should be displayed prominently with their name on it like they cured some dreaded pandemic or something.

Anyway, -I- still like it. :)

- Harry

Hey Matt,

Lots of people access the Vindolanda collection, but we do have one rule, which is that you cannot take anything away with you. As for the databases, well, we do provide access to some of them, the coins database is a good example, but not to others. Our problem is not that we don't have them, but rather we don't have the staff to supervise many people at once. Always back to the funding, we are a small Trust, and although we punch above our weight in some areas, we are alway having to juggle priorities, and this is ever the case with research requests. We do try our best, but the needs of the Trusts own research always takes priority, otherwise there would be no excavation reports. This is the big difference between a site with a dormant collection, and one that is actively increasing.

These issues tend to surface when a museum is independant and not publically funded in any way. Effectively, to survive, Vindolanda needs to operate like a business, most museums have no such pressure. So we must concentrate on our core responsibilities, and those that keep the wheels on the wagon first, the rest is something we mostly achieve in our spare time, or because we firmly believe that the information we have should be shared as much as possible.

It is not ideal, but then, what else can you do?

Andy

Andy-
What do you think of the academic and research ethics if the Trust chose to fight to have the tablets returned to Vindolanda when the the study center is completed and then charge researchers and the like to access the catalogues to view the artifacts? Would something like this generate more income for the Trust to continue to expand the facilities? Or would this be construed by academia as too greedy?
Matt

Hi Matt,

Well, 'generally' academics don't pay, they expect to BE PAID, but don't pay for much themselves. So an academic market, bar from teaching, is somewhat of a myth. Most academics use the images of the tablets rather than the objects themselves as they are too fragile to touch. From a curatorial sense, the tablets coming home would have to be tied in with something more substantial than the study centre. Although we do see the study centre as a resource for visiting academics.

I believe that there would be room to have some excellent archaeology courses run from this facility.

Tablets...

For me, the return of the tablets is not for the academics, many of them would probably prefer them to remain in London, rather it is an issue that goes much deeper than one which effects such a select audience as that. The return of the tablets would have to be for the people of the region. It is symbolic in one way, and deeply rooted to something more important in another, the idea that people have a true 'sense of place' and that the tablets are the cultural heritage of the region. A region that really does have this 'sense of place' and pride in itself. It bemuses me sometimes to find people fighting the corner (quite rightly) of poorly represented ehtnic groups in the world in an attempt to protect and nurture their cultural heritage, yet neglecting to consider that they also have a cultural heritage to take of. The tablets are an important part of the cultural heritage of the peoples the north of England.



Andy

Just saw this in the archaeology newsfeed at the British Archaeology Web site. Looks like the folks in Carlisle have worked out a way to get their Hadrian's Wall souvenir plate/pan back in their local museum. Maybe there's hope for the tablets after all!

- Harry


Carlisle News & Star
Our Roman treasure goes to Westminster
Published on 01/03/2007

A CARLISLE treasure was laid bear for all to see at Westminster yesterday.

MPs packed in to the members’ dining room in the House of Commons to see part of a collection of historic artefacts from world class museums from across the North West.

And among the items was an enamelled Roman pan from the Carlisle area which dates back to 125-140AD and bears the name of Roman forts along Hadrian’s wall, including Stanwix Wall.

It is believed the pan is only one of three such objects and would have originally had a handle and base.

Carlisle MP Eric Martlew, who attended the event, said: “The thing that is really great is that it is a national treasure going to be displayed in Tullie House in Carlisle.

“Too often we have lost important pieces to London museums. I understand this is the first time there has been co-operation between the British Museum, local museum and a third party. Although it will be on national display it will be locally too.

“We should try to get some of our treasures back from the Victoria and Albert museum as well.”

The collection has been brought together to celebrate the culture and history of the area.

It was great to have the cup back in the area. Of course there is a hope with the tablets, and Vindolanda Trust has initiated communications with the BM on the subject.However, we have yet to get a reply........

The request is a very difficult one for them to handle, and things like this may take some time to get resolved. In the meantime, fear not, for this year we very likely to be getting some more and there is nothing quite like fresh tablets with new information to get things moving.

Of course, it is impossible to say what we may find for certain. But I remain very confident that this seasons excavation areas will prove to be very exciting on the organic remains front. It will be our last foray into such areas for a while, so we must be sure to make the most of this opportunity and glean as much information as possible about the early levels of the site.

Watch the www.wedigvindolanda.com space for more as the season progresses.

Andy

Andy

we can but hope that more of the North East's heritage returns or stays in the North East.

after all the BM hardly needs more treasures - it doesnt display what it has of British History anyway...too much Greek, Egyptian etc etc


and yet in spite of all, the general public voted that the "Vindoland" tablets were the nations greatest treasure.........now that must rate as public awareness of the importance of the unique investigations being conducted at Vindolanda.


Long may the investigations continue.


Chris

Goes back to the original conundrum: If the tablets had remained at Vindolanda and not been displayed at the British Museum, would public awareness have been great enough to make them the #1 treasure in the country?

Which brings the other questions: Does being the source of the #1 rated treasure help the Trust (financially or otherwise)? If so, does it follow that it's been better for the tablets to be at the BM?

After lots of good arguments on both sides, I admit I'm still torn. I'd love for them to be back "home." That feels right on many levels. But I love the international spotlight that the BM can cast on them.

Makes me long for the days when the only big question was "where's the western extent of the defences?" Speaking of which.... :D

- Harry

Hi Chris,

Well, I agree with both you and Harry on this one. An ideal solution would be a selection of tablets at Vindolanda, and at the BM. Hopefully this years excavations will fill in the first part of that requirement. And as for Harry.....The Western defences,

Errrrrhhhmmmm, which one Harry? :-) Ok, the western western defences.....ask me in 30 years time and I'll let you know.

Andy

At least a few of the tablets should be at the findspot, after all most will never be on display in London.

but arguably, more important than the tablets is that the Vindolanda excavation has demonstrated that these artifacts survive in the archaeologica record......that there is the potential at all Roman waterlogged anaerobic sites that tablets may be found...

only recently i have discovered tales that leather shoes from Binchester were pulled out by children (now adults) when the site was more accessible.

so how many other places possess these conditions - ?

quite a few I would guess.

Hi Chris, Good questions ļ

Thousands of tablets should have been found on many sites since the discovery of the tablets at Vindo in the 1970's. Alas, although a few have been, most notably at Carlisle (London, and a few others), the revolution in tablet finding and information has yet to come through. Why? Perhaps it is simply because most archaeologists are married to their trowels, and you don't easily find something you can read (tablet wise) with a trowel. We have to work in a very specific way when we get into the pre-Hadrianic levels. Tablets are like damp blotting paper in the ground, so running a trowel over them does not tend to work too well. This method of excavation is not followed anywhere else to the best of my knowledge, and I think it has a great deal to do with the lack of these documents on other sites. Worse, I think it is possible that they are being unrecognised and destroyed on other sites, through a combination of technique and a lack of knowledge about how they look before they are conserved and are in the ground. The only way for me to prove this would be for either Justin, Myself or Robin to go somewhere else, and there is simply no incentive to do that for any of us at present (certainly not Robin!). All we can do is talk to people and offer the following argument ; ¡¥ here are the results of the Vindolanda excavations.... are you interested or not, and are these relevant to your own site?

An important aspect to recovery and reading is a rapid recovery and start to the 8 week conservation process. A tablet does not do well once oxygen hits it, so you have a limited time to start the conservation. On many excavations, the finds can wait months before they start conservation (sometimes years), too long a time frame for most writing tablets. This is why we have our own labs on the site. A tablet can be in cleaned and in conservation in under 1 hour after being recovered from the site. It takes less than 3 minutes for an exposed tablet to go from brown wood to black, from readable by the naked eye to unreadable. It takes 8 weeks to conserve a writing tablet, followed by the infra-red photography, finally, (hopefully) the reading. So if we get some this year, and we may, we won't have the results until after the end of the excavation season. But they are worth waiting for. And should we get some, I promise to post the results as we get them.
Best,

Andy

I am looking forward to seeing just how the tablets are recovered & conserved
for future reference.


having read your reply I have this sick feeling that I may have (in the past) obliterated evidence in damp deposits without realising....

Now and again a crucial advance has to be adopted,

from the appalling grave opening of Bryan Faussett in the 18th century through seriation......box grid sections......open excavation by layers ...rescue archaeology...prospection...conservation...........................

sounds to me that it is time to re-write Barker's techniques of Archaeological Excavation.... or at least write an important addendum :rolleyes:


Chris

Andy
The current 'monopoly' that the BM has on the tablets - I assume that is just for the ones that they already have? Bearing in mind the storage costa, etc., is it feasible for the tablets to be kept at Vindolanda when more are found? I know that many people, including myself, would love that to happen
Excuse my ignorance!
Sue
:(

Hi Sue :D

This is of course a legal issue, so I cannot be too specific but generally you could consider that the follwoing normally holds to be true:

The current deal is that once tablets have been found, conserved, photographed and the initial research has been conducted at Vindolanda they end up in the BM. The early processes can take many months, even years, but eventually the BM comes knocking and asks for the tablets. To give the BM credit where it is due, they help to pay for some of costs towards the conservation of the tablets (retrospectively of course) which is a big help.

The BM is publically committed to forging better links with the regions and regional museums in the future, and we (in the regions) can only see this as a positive step forward. So it is not all doom and gloom on the potential tablet front.

If we found something very ususal, such as a book or a diary at Vindolanda, this may not be covered under the same terms as the writing tablet agreement with the BM, and as such, this type of artefact would be expected to stay at Vindolanda.

Hope this helps,


Andy

Hi Chris,

Here is an essay. But before you get started reading this,

Don’t beat yourself up. Nobody that I know of excavates like we do in those layers, despite the fact that it is simple (ridiculously simple) and efficient and the results speak for themselves. ‘Why’ this is the case has a back history which is only now being (I hope) put to rest.

It starts with the fact that 'Mud is sticky'

Back in the 1970's Vindolanda's name was (to be frank) 'mud' in some archaeological quarters. This was down to a number of reasons which included a clash of personalities, jealousy and a few people who had deeper axes to grind. In short, it had all the ingredients of a good thriller! (and will be very familiar to anyone who has worked in archaeology for a time) HW had just emerged froma great period of academic activity, lots of definitive books had been writen, careers were in the making, and Robin had the teremity to find something like the tablets in the middle of it all.

The Vindolanda Trust was a new and revolutionary set up. No state funding, a charity, deeply involved in education and very very active. All of which are regarded as perfectly respectable and desirable ambitions today (to most people), but in the climate of the 1970’s things were sometimes very different, and some in the archaeological world saw it all as rather …. well…… vulgar. The idea of bringing archaeology to masses was seen as particularly vulgar, the opposite of today (hopefully). The site was being excavated by volunteers (more vulgar people, yes that's right, you lot were regarded as 'the great unwashed'), some of whome were 6th form pupils on history courses. This gave people who had no previous experience a chance to gain some, and some of those people went on to become Professors, one even became a famous presenter on Time Team. For some of those opposed to the Vindolanda excavations, the courses run with sixth form pupils were especially enraging, the Trust accused of using 'child labour'. For our non UK nationals reading this, sixth form pupils are 16 - 18year olds. Today we still accept volunteers from the age of 16 or over.

A good example of the 'feeling' in those days was the reaction to the proposal by the Trust to open a coffee shop at the museum (the first on a Hadrian’s Wall site). Some commented at the time that this was ‘bringing the monument into disrepute’ and another commentator actually went as far as to liken it to turning HW into ‘Disneyland’. I can only presume that this person had never been to Disneyland. However, if any of you feel the urge to complement out staff on the food, you might like to make a comparrison. I am sure they will appreciate it.

We can laugh about such a statement today but back in the early 1970’s with a small and new Charitable Trust trying to survive on very few resources, such a 'opperational climate' made things very tough. By the 1972-73 season it was clear that The Vindolanda Trust needed some extra things to get going to the higher level if it was to survive, and so the Trustees started to plan to do these things (although even a board level, there were disagreements, with some resigning over things which may now be seen as very small beer) and which would be regarded as perhaps perfectly sensible today:

A telephone line (some could not see the reason an Ancient monument might need one!) (and yes, I am being serious).

Water supply (non on site when Trust was founded)

A museum (was two tin Nissen sheds by 1972, no museum until after 1974)

A car park (thousands of visitors and no car park, with the small east gate car park built in the early 70’s which can only hold 20 cars, and no busses!)

Some toilets; up to this point the director of excavations had the dubious pleasure of having to empty a series of alsan chemical toilets every few hours, gents had a turf urinal (interesting to note National Parks recent murmurings about testing turf loos on HW for walkers) .

The creation of the main western car park was a job undertaken by the county council/Nat Parks, and to do this they had some heavy plant machinery to roll in the new surface (they were hardly going to do it by hand), and to remove old spoil heaps (which were to be re-used on the Bardon Mill and Hexham bypasses). This was seen by some as the final straw, and a story went out in the times newspaper that claimed Vindolanda was like 'an open cast quarry' and that the excavations taking place there should be turned over to state control (ie the previous incarnation of EH) to be done 'properly'. They thought that the Trust was too small and disorganised to cope with such a site. In short, they wanted the Trust taken over or shut down.

Now, after many years and once the dust has settled, you can see what may have been in part as a tussle between those who had a Romantic view of the profession and HW and those who really wanted to challenge perception of the wall and find out as much as they could in a lifetime. Those who thought that the site should be either totally private or state controlled and those who were prepared to offer another way.

The Vindolanda Trustees themselves could be crudely divided into the two groups, of course there were other factors, but this was certainly a part of it.

This was then a dark time for the Trust, and some brave Trustees and Robin & Pat took the Times to the high court over the publication of the slanderous letter and won (brave because had they lost they would have all been homeless and penniless, which incidently would have made me homeless as well, not that I had a say in the matter!), on the basis that the article was inflammatory and simply untrue. The Times later printed an apology but the damage had been done, and the archaeological community divided over the issue. Mud as they rightly say….. sticks, and for the Vindolanda Trust this was true. Robin was getting advice at the time from some well respected colleagues along the lines of 'shouldn't you forget about the tablets and do some 'proper archaeology'? Quite what this meant I am unsure.

The result, Vindolanda and some of the techniques employed on the site were regarded with suspicion in many quarters. While not a reviled, it was seen as risky.

Today it has taken 37 years of success to show that the methods employed worked, and that the Trust can survive as an independant body, and provide a valuable service to people wishing to learn about our past, whoever they are and whatever their background. But .. 10, 20 years ago, despite the obvious fact that the Trust was successful at finding writing tablets in large numbers and the fact that nobody else seemed to be finding them in such quantities, this was ignored by some, put down to ‘luck’ by others or a few held the view that Vindolanda was more ‘special’ than other sites. When a colleague of mine joined Bournmouth Uni as an undergrad in 1996 he was told in one of his lectures that the tablets were made from lead, so ignorance must have played its part too.

Of course, we must remember that the tablets are only a part of the story, and that while they have perhaps rightly dominated the debate, their context and the wonderful other finds from the site also have much to say about how life once was at Vindolanda. It is perhaps for this reason more than any other that a few of the tablets belong at home, in their context, as every day items, surrounded by the rest of the archaeological archive. By doing this it reminds us that they are a part of the story, not the sum total of it.

There are of course other sites that share Vindolanda’s environmental conditions, and I can’t believe that at Vindolanda we have simply been 'lucky for 37 years'.


Best,

Andy


P.S. Robin is writing a new Vindolanda book, and this will be full of interesting stories about the early days of the Trust. It is a history of both Ancient and Modern Vindolanda. Hopefully it will be completed this year.

Wow.

Brilliant! This is a fabulous piece of Vindolanda history, and sobering. So by opening your doors to regular folks, and trying new excavation techniques to safely recover artefacts, you were seen as heretics & even downright dangerous.

At first glance, the 1970s seem so modern; it's almost impossible to wrap my head around how different attitudes actually were.

- Harry

Harry,

There is nothing new under the archaeological sun. I was once asked by an insepctor of ancient monuments if we did 'proper plans'. I replied that yes, we did, and they were accurate to 0.4cms. That we used a total station. He then replied, 'no, I mean plans with tape measures'.

I was pretty much astounded, but, I could reasure him that we did indeed at times use tapemeaures if we needed to and he seemed quite happy with that. Archaeology in the UK is a strange old business. :rolleyes:


Andy

Andy


excellent posts..


goes to show just how.....shall we say....odd the Archaeological community can be at times...

some will never accept that methodology has to change in step with advances in knowledge....perhaps the last time this particular individual was physically participating on a dig was one where only tapes and grids were used.....10 to 15 years at least. the epithet Dinosaur comes to mind....bring on the K-T boundary.


The TS is the only way forward to record accurately and quickly in 3D.....some people it seems will never move beyond the box grid and tape measure


but then I think, ......I wonder how much hassle the likes of Petrie, Pitt Rivers, Fox and Wheeler were subject to before they became the authoritive figures....


Harry

in the back end of the 70's I was working with Brian Philp down at the Dover Shore Fort (and other sites) ...I can assure you that it was a time of Rescue and personalities...Brian had his troubles as well - the hassles he had in preserving the Painted house is unbelievable


It was a strange time between Wheeler's One Man Show and the advent of the PPG, It was the time of Chronicle on BBC 2 documenting current archaeological Discoveries......and many of the present greats in the field cut their teeth in the period by standing up and declaring for what they believed.


Chris