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Solar Dusk Academy > Yu-Gi-Oh! Deck Discussion > Greed Gets What it Deserves



Title: Greed Gets What it Deserves


Kuroshiro Lingshen - June 30, 2008 05:50 AM (GMT)
A deck based around the card "Greed." Stopping the opponent from drawing extra cards they need or punishing them for drawing those cards in the first place, here it is.
Comments/Questions are welcome.

Monsters
x2 Chainsaw Insect
x2 Destiny Hero - Defender
x2 Hiro's Shadow Scout
x1 Morphing Jar
x2 The Bistro Butcher
x2 Silent Magician LV 4
x2 Des Koala
x2 Cat of Ill Omen
x1 Mask of Darkness

Magic
x2 Hand Destruction
x1 Card Destruction
x2 Dragged Down Into the Grave
x1 Swords of Revealing Light
x1 Mystical Space Typhoon
x2 Cup of Ace

Trap
x3 Greed
x3 Dark Bribe
x3 Disturbance Strategy
x3 Secret Barrel
x2 Drastic Drop Off
x2 Gift of Greed
x1 Torrential Tribute
x1 Crush Card Virus
x1 Mind Crush
x1 Trap Dustshoot

Xenneth Hikari - June 30, 2008 07:23 AM (GMT)
I'm not a deck wiz,(and god knows I'm not) but would this deck be perfect for appropriate as well? 0_0

Lelouch Lamperouge - June 30, 2008 07:35 AM (GMT)
Yes, it would. Simply add Exodia in there somewhere and it'll be good to go. It isn't a great strategy though since, frankly, there are better ways to run Exodia.

On the deck itself, it looks pretty solid, but I rather question the use of Silent Magicians and Level Modulation in the deck. I understand that it benefits from the extra cards your opponent will be drawing, but I don't think it fits with the Burn strategy that Greed decks should be going for. I'd remove them for some stall cards like SoRL or Threatenings.

Also, you might want to consider adding a few more hand disruption cards like the classic Mind Crush + Trap Dustshoot. I know it's a Greed deck, but giving your opponent more opportunities to destroy your strategy is not the best of ideas. Maybe you could even fit Virus cards in somewhere since you have quite a few available targets (possibly a Side Deck option?). In particular, CCV will help against DAD and Judgment Dragons which will destroy the entire strategy easily.

Allison Wonderland - June 30, 2008 11:38 AM (GMT)
Minor Burn Damage is Minor.

Appropriate would be better...

Also, the deck completely shuts down when you hit a Spirit Reaper, a Marshmallon, or a Gravity Gind, since you have no monster removal, and no s/t removal.

Kuroshiro Lingshen - June 30, 2008 05:30 PM (GMT)
- Eh?

- I see that Appropriate would be better. Editing it in.

- I see your point. Adding in cards.

Edits to the Deck: (upped to 45 Cards)
-1 Silent Magician LV 4
-2 Sasuke Samurai #3

+1 Night Assailant
+1 Mystical Space Typhoon
+3 Appropriate
+1 Smashing Ground
+1 Torrential Tribute
+1 Crush Card Virus

Alastair Meztli Solaris - June 30, 2008 05:33 PM (GMT)
Greed hits both players... appropriate would hurt the deck if you include greed more than anything....

Kuroshiro Lingshen - June 30, 2008 05:38 PM (GMT)
Thus the Solemn Wishes. That's trying to stop or reduce the damage I would be taking.

Alastair Meztli Solaris - June 30, 2008 05:40 PM (GMT)
With the amount of drawing the opponent's gonna be doing and thus the drawing appropriate'll be doing you're gonna be drawing more than just the extra five hundred per turn..... furthermore solemn wishes isn't as good a fit as more cards that make the opponent draw more are.

oh and why drop off over drastic drop off? drastic drop off is infinitely better.

Fubuki Tenjyoin - June 30, 2008 06:12 PM (GMT)
Sasuke Samurai #3 anyone?

Alastair Meztli Solaris - June 30, 2008 06:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Fubuki Tenjyoin @ Jun 30 2008, 01:12 PM)
Sasuke Samurai #3 anyone?

i wouldn't mind seeing that if shrink was in the deck.

Allison Wonderland - June 30, 2008 11:57 PM (GMT)
I personally think Greed should be out.

It's only minor burn damage after all...

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 1, 2008 12:23 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Allison Wonderland @ Jun 30 2008, 06:57 PM)
I personally think Greed should be out.

It's only minor burn damage after all...

Greed + Disturbance Strategy = 2500 + Most times.

Greed + Hiro = 1500

Greed + Morphing = 2500

Greed + Bistro = 1000

Greed + Hand Destruction = 1000

Greed + Card Destruction = 2500 + Most times

Greed + Level Modulation = 1000

call me crazy but none of those seem like very minor numbers. each one seems to be more than an eighth of your opponent's life points. i wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more Wave-Motion Cannon either but Greed is an effective burn method if it goes off ONCE.

i also wouldn't mind seeing triple copies of Cup of Ace which would make use of both effects.

Allison Wonderland - July 1, 2008 12:49 AM (GMT)
Drawing means giving more options to your opponent. The more he draws, the higher chance of him drawing into Heavy Storm, MST, Lightning Vortex, Mirror Force, Torrential Tribute, etc etc.

And that's before he sides into Mobius and Twister to get rid of the minor burn damage Greed is causing.

And, I second Cup of Acel.

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 1, 2008 01:03 AM (GMT)
if during the end phase of either round the opponent has more than six cards they have to discard cards until their hand reaches six cards. also of the cars i listed four of the ones mentioned force the opponent to discard cards as well. then you also add dark bribe into the equation (though that should be run at three.....) and you have yourself a helluva chance of getting rid of the MST and storm from game one.

oh and like i said drastic drop off will take care of way more threats than drop off. then to deal with the ones that get through i wouldn't mind seeing some solemn judgment action in here.

disturbance strategy should be maxed out btw.

Fubuki Tenjyoin - July 1, 2008 03:35 AM (GMT)
I also think you're running too many trap cards. Jinzo's at three now. Just remember that!

Saidre - July 1, 2008 06:49 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
Greed + Disturbance Strategy = 500

Greed + Hiro = 500

Greed + Morphing = 500

Greed + Bistro = 500

Greed + Hand Destruction = 500

Greed + Card Destruction = 500

Greed + Level Modulation = 500

call me crazy but none of those seem like very minor numbers. each one seems to be more than an eighth of your opponent's life points. i wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more Wave-Motion Cannon either but Greed is an effective burn method if it goes off ONCE.

i also wouldn't mind seeing triple copies of Cup of Ace which would make use of both effects.

Damage amounts fixed. You only draw once for each card. You may draw more than one card at a time, but you drew them all at the same time. If it weren't for that, the deck could work.

Drop Greeds and find a better way to burn your opponent's life points. Expecting to make your opponent draw 16 times is slow and unrealistic.

Kuroshiro Lingshen - July 1, 2008 06:58 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Saidre @ Jun 30 2008, 11:49 PM)
QUOTE
Greed + Disturbance Strategy = 2500+ Most times

Greed + Hiro = 1500

Greed + Morphing = 2500

Greed + Bistro = 1000

Greed + Hand Destruction = 1000

Greed + Card Destruction = 2500+ Most times

Greed + Level Modulation = 1000

call me crazy but none of those seem like very minor numbers. each one seems to be more than an eighth of your opponent's life points. i wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more Wave-Motion Cannon either but Greed is an effective burn method if it goes off ONCE.

i also wouldn't mind seeing triple copies of Cup of Ace which would make use of both effects.


Damage amounts fixed. You only draw once for each card. You may draw more than one card at a time, but you drew them all at the same time. If it weren't for that, the deck could work.

Drop Greeds and find a better way to burn your opponent's life points.

Re-Fixed.
It says on the card that they take 500 damage for each card drawn. The rule you are talking about only applies to Solemn Wishes.

EDIT:
- 2 Solemn Wishes, Drop Off, & Appropriate
+1 Chainsaw Insect, D-Hero - Defender, Mask of Darkness, & Disturbance Strategy
+ 2 Cup of Ace & Drastic Drop Off

Xenneth Hikari - July 1, 2008 07:53 AM (GMT)
Wasn't there a card that punishes the opponent for having too many cards in the hand? Perhaps was it Pineapple Blast or something? I don't know, I forgets.

If you're going to make your opponent constatly draw cards and keep a large hand, would Des Koala, help?

Kuroshiro Lingshen - July 1, 2008 10:08 AM (GMT)
There was a Trap card, but I can't remember the name...

Des Koala would work well, actually, now that you mention it. Now that I think about it, Des Wombat would work nicely in here if I keep it alive.

-1 Night Assailant
-2 Silent Magician LV 8
-2 Level Modulation

+2 Des Koala
+2 Des Wombat
+1 Swords of Revealing Light

Haru Hizashi - July 1, 2008 12:39 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Xenneth Hikari @ Jul 1 2008, 03:53 PM)
Wasn't there a card that punishes the opponent for having too many cards in the hand? Perhaps was it Pineapple Blast or something? I don't know, I forgets.

If you're going to make your opponent constatly draw cards and keep a large hand, would Des Koala, help?

I think you're referring to Penalty Game or Heavy Slump.

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 1, 2008 05:45 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Saidre @ Jul 1 2008, 01:49 AM)
QUOTE
Greed + Disturbance Strategy = 500

Greed + Hiro = 500

Greed + Morphing = 500

Greed + Bistro = 500

Greed + Hand Destruction = 500

Greed + Card Destruction = 500

Greed + Level Modulation = 500

call me crazy but none of those seem like very minor numbers. each one seems to be more than an eighth of your opponent's life points. i wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more Wave-Motion Cannon either but Greed is an effective burn method if it goes off ONCE.

i also wouldn't mind seeing triple copies of Cup of Ace which would make use of both effects.

Damage amounts fixed. You only draw once for each card. You may draw more than one card at a time, but you drew them all at the same time. If it weren't for that, the deck could work.

Drop Greeds and find a better way to burn your opponent's life points. Expecting to make your opponent draw 16 times is slow and unrealistic.

you may want to read the card again. you obviously don't know the full effect. it's not like appropriate in that manner. the card itself says "500 for EACH card drawn." not "When a card is drawn"

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 1, 2008 05:46 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Kuroshiro Lingshen @ Jul 1 2008, 05:08 AM)
There was a Trap card, but I can't remember the name...

Des Koala would work well, actually, now that you mention it. Now that I think about it, Des Wombat would work nicely in here if I keep it alive.

-1 Night Assailant
-2 Silent Magician LV 8
-2 Level Modulation

+2 Des Koala
+2 Des Wombat
+1 Swords of Revealing Light

Secret Barrel would be much better than Des Wombat

Kuroshiro Lingshen - July 1, 2008 06:10 PM (GMT)
Yeah! Secret Barrel was the card I was thinking of.
And another card I think would be useful in the deck would be Null and Void. Comments?

EDIT:
-1 D-Hero - Defender
-2 Des Wombat
+3 Secret Barrel

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 1, 2008 06:14 PM (GMT)
no. null and void doesn't work with disturbance strategy morphing jar or card destruction if i'm not mistaken.

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 1, 2008 06:16 PM (GMT)
Card # DR3-EN057
Card Name Null and Void
Card Type Trap
Is Continuous No
Is Counter No
Text
Activate only when an effect of drawing card(s) is activated. Both players see the cards drawn by the effect and discard them all to the Graveyard.
Rulings
# You can only chain "Null and Void" to an effect that draws cards and does nothing else. You can chain "Null and Void" to the activation of "Pot of Greed" or "Jar of Greed". You can chain "Null and Void" to the activation of the effect of cards like "Airknight Parshath".
# You can chain "Null and Void" to a Continuous Spell or Trap Card that causes drawing, such as "Mirage of Nightmare" or "Heart of the Underdog". You cannot chain "Null and Void" to "Disturbance Strategy", "Graceful Charity", "Card Destruction", "Morphing Jar", "Mind Wipe", "Dragged Down into the Grave", or "Reload".
# You can activate "Null and Void" during the Damage Step, for example against the effects of "Airknight Parshath", "Sasuke Samurai #3" or "Bistro Butcher".
# The card(s) discarded by the effect of "Null and Void" are never treated as actually drawn, so they are considered sent from the Deck to the Graveyard.
# You can chain "Null and Void" to "Reckless Greed". Since you cannot draw by the effect of "Reckless Greed", the effect of skipping 2 Draw Phases is NOT applied.
# You can chain "Null and Void" to the effect of "Royal Magical Library".
# You cannot chain "Null and Void" to the effect of "Appropriate" because the effect of "Appropriate" cannot be chained to.
# [Re: Card of Sanctity] You can chain "Null and Void" to "Card of Sanctity".
# [Re: Gemini Imps] If you activate "Pot of Greed" and your opponent chains "Null and Void", it is not possible to chain "Gemini Imps".

yeah second ruling down.

Kuroshiro Lingshen - July 1, 2008 06:30 PM (GMT)
Yeah, I read it already. It would've been good though. Too bad.

Saidre - July 1, 2008 06:48 PM (GMT)
You're right, I didn't see that, but that's even worse. If the damage were instant, it'd be good, but with that many options in their hand, Greed isn't staying on the field and you aren't surviving the turn if it's theirs.

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 1, 2008 07:00 PM (GMT)
do you know how much spell and trap destruction is common in most decks?

do you also know what the chances of having it discarded by drastic drop off or negated by dark bribe are?

you say that but you're pretty much just wrong.

Saidre - July 2, 2008 02:17 AM (GMT)
Fine, you want a list:

Gladiator Beasts:

2-3 Gladiator Beast Bestiari
Almost infinitely reusable Gyzarus, with three in fusion deck and plenty of ways to throw it back to the deck and bring it back out.
1-3 Heraklinos
Cold Wave, misses Greed but stops your discarding and protection
Test Tiger brings out Bestiari to pop Greed

Lightsworn:

3x Judgment Dragon
2x Ryko
3x Lyla
3x Celestia

Lumina can bring out Lyla so she can pop greed, making her pseudo spell/trap destruction

DAD:

3x Dark Armed Dragon
0-1 mained Jinzo, 1-2 sided
1 Stratos

+ Phantom of Chaos and Sangan, who reuse lost Snipe Hunters and the phantom becomes the Dragon.
+ DMoC who can secure spell trap staples lost to your precious Drastics.

Perfect Circle:

Caius
Raiza
Mobius
Stratos

Staple/pan-archetype:

Prohibition (mained or sided, gained popularity at nats.)
Dust tornado (Sided)
Mystical Space Typhoon (Mained or Sided)
Heavy Storm
Snipe Hunter
Solemn Judgment
Phoenix Wing Wind Blast, since Greed is continuous and does no damage if spun, since it must still be there during the end phase.
Mind Crush if they can read you or have CCV/Dustshoot off. Assuming they go first
Royal Decree sided

If the deck is built to make the opponent draw, they're going to get to some of it. If you have enough prevention to stop all of that, you aren't going to force them to draw. If you can force them to draw, you won't stop all of it. Especially in rounds 2-3. Hope you're against Dark Armed and they side badly. The other big decks would blow Greed apart. I was wrong earlier about the damage, but not about this. They will get greed off the field or negate it.

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 2, 2008 02:33 AM (GMT)
*cough*

now then lets take a look at all the cards in the deck that stop it (i also recommended solemn to solve that problem but no...)

dark bribe stops what gets to their hand
Drastic Drop Off Hand Destruction CCV card destruction and dragged down all force them to discard and dragged down lets you see the opponent's hand. i wouldn't mind seeing a bit more dust shoot and mind crush to help solve that problem as well (mentioned earlier in the topic)

i'll grant your lists caught me a little off guard as i had forgotten about all the cards that would likely be side decked as well as G-Beasts ( just can't remember what their effects are) all the same the deck has protection against them even if more could be used. furthermore there are more ways to take advantage of the massive draws than just Greed. Secret Barrel + Des Koala takes care of the problem if they're drawing with Greed and with the massive drawing done in the game today anyway they could even have bigger hands than provided by him.

Saidre - July 2, 2008 04:45 AM (GMT)
Problem is, you aren't drawing. they are. They inevitably will have more options than you can negate. If they don't the deck isn't working. Yes you have plenty of ways screw with their hand, but they will have more options and if you have that much disruption then you don't have the forced draw stuff. Which means the deck isn't working. you have to be ready to work with maybe 9 cards, more if you can get your own draw stuff off, and if you don't have Greed and your opponent can do as they please for one turn in game 2, you're sunk. That's the problem with the deck, you have to go first to win. If you lose the coin toss, game 1 will be hard, and if you loose, they're going to go first at least one more time, so once they've sided it'll be hard to get around it. And all of those are jammed by first turn cold wave or set solemns.

Alastair Meztli Solaris - July 7, 2008 04:13 PM (GMT)
it doesn't matter whether or not you're drawing. there are at least 8 cards in the deck to take advantage of the opponent drawing extra cards. that's a quarter of the deck (maybe a little less there are more than 40 cards in the deck) and a quarter is definitely enough to consider the draw burn approach a viable choice.

also you ARE drawing. draw phases + hand destruction + card destruction + Morphing Jar + Dragged Down into the Grave + Cup of Ace

now lets do u p the math there shall we? i'm coming up with 8 cards again. that's another quarter of the deck. then there are also cards to search out and bring the win condition back to the hand in A Cat of Ill Omen and Mask of Darkness. seems to me that the deck has its bases covered on getting its cards to burn the opponent's lifepoints and drawing into the win condition.

you continue to list all the faults of the deck but what does that say? it doesn't say anything other than that the person shouldn't be running this deck. should a person limit themselves only to what is competitive? because from your arguments that's what it sounds like. if we only analyze the faults of a deck then no work can be done to improve the deck. it is only by observing all of the decks strong points and flaunting those that the deck can become better.




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