Hello !

No, I haven't forgotten my Worldbuilders.
I have come into contact with a Freeware language that does 3-D VERY EASILY.
Now I'm not going to have 3-D characters walking all around like Final Fantasy 7, but I can have virtually every effect you've seen in PSX Saga Frontier, including Mode 7 graphics, 3-D Dungeons (better than DOOM because it uses your 3-D card), and true light-elements, like sprites that stretch and blur together getting brighter to create the awesome casting-magic effects like you've seen in SNES Chrono Trigger and ALL the Final Fantasy SNES games.

I am offering quite a bit to the language myself.
At one point, you could not play MIDI files in it, now you can with my code.
You could not plot true pixels in it, only 3-D light elements, now you can with my new code.

It required you to install both a .DLL and run a .EXE audio-installer to have any audio in it. Now you just need to run my Booster which can be found here:

http://www.geocities.com/dw817/engines/b4gb11.zip

You could not delete files (a safety feature of the original author)
now you can with my Booster.

Future Booster will provide ability to bring up a Filebox, and to CHANGE directory.
ALL of these elements are missing from the language and the Author wants to keep his language safe. I understand, but he should just limit NOT to go to:

C:\windows , c:\programs , c:\document & settings

Booster is exactly like my IXTO.
Remember that ? I laid out the details for Andy and he wrote it, is using it today, and gives me full credit for the idea.

IXTO Is my way of allowing ANY programming language from doing things that it cannot do by you giving it instructions in a simple text file and IXTO getting it, running it, and returning results if any.

The Basic4GL language has some major limitations but MEMORY isn't one of them !
It lacks the structure of GFABasic, but there are ways to get around this.

There are too many positive things about this language for me to go back to GFABasic.

NEW Scenario pulls itself out of the ashes. No longer limited to stretching BITMAPS, I can have special effects like you see in the best SNES RPGs and several Playstation games as well.

You deserve to see what all the fuss is about so I direct you here:

http://www.basic4gl.net/

Download a copy. Try all the graphic demos. Play with it. Tell Tom HOW MUCH you LOVE his Freeware language ! Tell 'em David W sent ya. :)

There is a steep learning curve in here, including the ability of creating a scrolling map that flows as gracefully as the SNES since it is using the 3-D card once again, but I am learning all I can. This Scenario is going to seriously R O C K.

And I can do MIDI, with the help of my Booster, so that game plan is still on !

OK !

I am still very excited at this, and coding is what I've been doing.
Experimenting, creating complex data structures, and determining how to make the World Compiler for Scenario3.

You will find me MORE active in their FORUM than in here. (I am asking questions all the time about how to do stuff in it) :)

http://basic4gl.proboards20.com/

That's all from here !

Now I can FINALLY compete with the best videogames out there for there eye-dropping FX !

David

That was my post, sorry I forgot to login after deleting cookies. Please delete one or the other.

I'm not a big fan of 3D (though it's the wave of the future!) I just love and adore 2D games! That's where you used your imagination and actually had a good story! Now with 3D it's all about pretty pictures and people wonder, where the heck is the story?? Argh, it's so annoying that pictures have to tell the story, not words! The fate of the English langauge (or whatever written language you write!) as we know it is going down the tubes! Ack!
[end freakout]

Okay, okay, I was being overly dramatic, but all in all, 3D is nice and all, but why don't you make two seperate versions of Scenario? One in 3D and one in 2D? There won't be compatiblity issues and the like and we can still make awesome games in either engine! Make two camps happy all with one throw! :D

I'm sure Jed will agree with me! Ya? Really? [pokes Jed with a stick] :P

Hi Spinner & Jed:

* Well, here's the interesting thing.
There may be 100% compatibility with prior versions of Scenario since memory appears pretty close to unlimited, I think I can make some allowances.

Here's the clypse thus far: 96 Tiles.
I'm learning how to make a hardware driven mapper.
The speed is beyond graceful and features about unlimited map-space to make a map in so you're not limited to the 63x63 area.

Also, I need to clarify, this will NOT be a 3-D RPGMaker, but 3-D special FX in combat mostly, and only for spells and items. Remember the cool effects you got in Chrono Trigger when you cast spells and when you played Saga Frontier and cast spells or abilities ? The system will be VERY close to Scenario2 with scrolling maps, sprites, the works, but with the introduction of true transparency in sprites and elements and the ability to blend images together to make white fireballs, etc.

I MAY not be using the real 3-D of Basic4GL at all, where you build 3-D rotating cubes, pyramids and the like. The dungeons can be 3-D, but I'll probably keep things in kilter with the early one, all top-view with a torchlit view. The main advantage is this is a programming language that is DESIGNED for the kind of graphic work I need. Remember, GFABasic is and always has been a business programming language. It was never designed for the kind of infliction I placed on it by being a graphic giant in many respects.

Regarding, Basic4GL, I'll let you know more when I know more myself.
Right now I'll culling together 98 default Tiles and am building the map generator to see how fluid it is. Hopefully it will work well. :)

This will probably NOT fit on a single 3 & 1/2 inch disk by the time I get something workable out of it, however.

David

3D, hmm, well that certainly is a giant leap from our familiar 2D Scenario.

Here is, personally how I feel about it:

I myself, do not want to see entire worlds thrown into a 3D world, but as I've read, it seems you only plan to have certain aspects of Scenario in 3D, David. I am happy with this, I wouldn't mind seeing a 3D combat system, and maybe some other effects here and there.

But I am wondering, are you planning to have 3D sprites on a 2D rendered background? This would be complex for world builders to take care of, and if we were limited to a set tile selection for this, immersed in a 3D engine a player wouldn't feel right with a limited selection of tiles or backgrounds.

I am aware that others may feel the following:

The very feel and essence of the desired RPG created with the Scenario engine maybe that of a 2D one. For some funny reason, and many gamers will agree with me, there is a funny way of bringing forth more atmosphere in a 2D RPG, even more so than a 3D one. The simple graphics may very be the heart and soul of some games, and by changing this, this may be at the dismay of some worldbuilders.

I'm sure there is a way to please both those wanting 2D graphics and those keen for 3D.

Heheh, Spinner has been poking me with that stick constantly for the past 30 hours now.
Yes, I give in! Okay, put it down :( :(

I have always believed and still do - that I don't need any special animated polygonal FX 2010 chip kind of graphics to over-flashify my productions. My focus is on the heart of the RPGs, the story, the characters, and the life, the environment they are in.

I like to be able to have nice effects, as there aer many which help set the mood, and create cut scenes, like the torchlit, the footprints, the flares, the explosions.
And, with the alpha objects, we have so much to play with.

2D, like Shadow feels, is something special. Map and world wise, it's a tradition that I love.

SO, your recent comment, David, was a comforting one to be true :)

I can see the strengths of this 3D based language. It looks like there's plenty of scope for mathematical functions and algorithms. I await with a smile anything graphically you do design for Scenario, confident that the heart of the 2D lore will remain.

Interested also I am, in the fact you mentioned the future for transparent sprites. I was only thinking of this the other day, how I'd like a shadowy creature moving through a foggy forest, and you can still see the trees over their silhouette.

I think really, I would desire fancy graphics to an extent :P, but every one will be a bonus I don't expect, and as long as it's easy to build from our point of view, or from a tutorial point of view, like the scripting of custom items etc, then yeah, I'm a willing participant.

I wonder if it's possible with the behind the scenes to map a model where line of sight, or vision can be established, to make sprites/critters appear only when you can see them, literally if a wall tile is between you and the sprite, then they will remain blank. Kind of like undiscovered rooms, where they are added to view and map when you enter/can see in proximity.

And a radar to locate nearby enemies? I have it in plan to make some kind of radar system for current scenario game, but it's very inquiry based right now.

Final note - Is it really so that the maps are so smooth when scrolling? I can't wait.

Final addition - What is the feasibility/desirability of making the tiles slightly smaller than the current model? Would that affect the backwards compatibility?

Hi Guest (I'm not too sure who this is!) :)

Regarding line of sight, hiding tiles out of view, this is actually quite easy to do and I did it for Orbs of Ankhar for the Apple ][+.

Once again, it was tiles, but forest cut off view inside to 3x3, and if you were in a vertical corridor, you could not see around curves ahead.

The best way to see this is play Ultima for the NES emulator (it's the 1st Ultima for NES I think)..

I saw this on Apple ][+ years ago (it was the 3rd Ultima for Apple ][+ by Richard Garriott - whom I actually spoke with voice on telephone years ago ^.^ )

Anyways, the technique to block sprites and tiles out of view can be done, but not easily since I did not design the parallax mapper for Basic4GL.

On the Apple ][+ I wrote it in machine-language. On the IBM-pc, it would have to be in raw coding for Basic4GL, and that could lead to some complex elements outside the default mapper, and may slow-down considerably the currently smooth scrolling. I'll experiment but no guarantees.

The mapper for Basic4GL also apparently uses the entire screen. While it is liquid smooth for scrolling, I wanted to set screen boundaries like current Scenario2.

The good news is you can choose the size of the tiles you want.
While they are 32x32 I am doubling the display of them. Since I am using a graphic library, it doubles intelligently rounding pixel corners and smoothing out 45 degree angles in the images.

You can go by percentage as well so if you go by 50% then the 32x32 tiles actually appear 16x16 on a true 800x600 screen very small (which will be great for map editing when you need to see more of your work).

I'll let you know more when I know more myself. :)

David

Hi Shadow:

* Briefly, all graphics will appear exactly as current Scenario2 with a few exceptions. There will be no limits to the # of colors (more than 256), and no limit to memory, having dimmed:

Maps=255
SizeX=255
SizeY=255
ScriptPtr=255
ScriptLen=65536
DIM BigMap(Maps,SizeX,SizeY,ScriptPtr,ScriptLen)

And finding I have memory for more after that ! :D

The only "3-D" stuff will be for fading in/out the 32x32 sprites for magic effects, fog effects, and some raytrace special FX for powerful spells in combat. ALL ELSE is 2-D, no 3-D Sprites of any kind (unless I suddenly get artistic and try to make them like FF7 summon spells and I DOUBT I have that much skill at doodling) :)

ALL ELEMENTS in Scenario3 will use 2-D Sprites & Tiles.

David

Yes, that was me that posted as guest (again...) above. My cookies got reset so many times recently and I keep forgetting that I'm not logged in. Plus I'm tired :rolleyes:

Now, Ultima indeed, classic game, great use of the view angles.

Thanks, that's quite a positive possibility for the 50%(or other) viewing screen scaling. This would be great for worldbuilding and for gameplay.

The big trouble with 3D is, indeed, that raw graphic work needs to be done. I find this so hard for making my own character designs, that's just on a 2D model. I see how far too complicated this is and should be left to graphic systems designers.

So, the 3D options, could be quite vast. In theory, this doesn't need 3D, but, would terrain and height advantage come into play?
Sorry, I'm just throwing random things. I'll be quiet now.
Must practice patience despite promising future.

Hi Jed, Spinner, & Shadow:

* Here is a brief clypse of what I'm working on.
[enclosed]
http://dw817.wikispaces.com/

I am having to write my own keyboard routine, much like Scenario2 since it relies on the Windows default repeat-speed which is far too slow. Hold down [SHIFT] to go double speed.

I am looking into multiple overlays to this screen to insert Sprites, Beta Objects, and atmospheres.

Currently I can play .MID, .MOD, .S3M, .XM, .IT, .OGG, .WAV sound files.

David

UPDATE 8:15pm
~~~~~~~~~~
I have added ENGINE.EXE so you can see (follow link above)
Press 1-4 for zoom factor, arrow keys to swirl around.

you can rotate or scale anything, including the entire map,
have sprite transparency, specify the color attributes and scale.

Next demo will include some music to test system.

This is great stuff. I've been playing about in the tutorials and I love it.
But, your engine.exe is a treat, that's very impressive.
I love the ability of rotating the entire map. And the zooming and the scrolling is as flush and smooth as you described. It even goes diagonally! Although, that would be a pre-requisite of rotation I'm sure.
It's certainly very interesting indeed.

Would it be possible to have a section to code your own script for a mini game inclusion? I don't know how that could be vaildated for errors in an rpgmaker though.

Hi Jed:

* Two steps forward, one step back.

Here is what I am going to do.
I am going to do my BEST to make it 100% compatible with world files already made. There is just too much good work from Worldbuilders such as yourself and others have done. I feel certain that maps with sprites will import cleanly. What I'm concerned about is scripts.

Here's the clypse:
I MUST have a table for tiles where it reads in a true single bitmap that holds several tiles for the high-speed scrolling map. What I'll probably wind up doing is making a blank template bitmap file and stuffing in tiles as they arrive.

Either this or go to fixed 70 tiles like Scenario + room to get a total 256.

There are a few curious elements in the scripting that will probably not run correctly, notably the ability to "upgrade" a weapon. Probably world files will convert over to the newer format but scripts may or may not run correctly.

Remember I am trying to make everything "scriptable" including items, weapons, armor, the players might have.

Here's the model. "Scenario Quest", the one written by Toulouse.
His world file is a pure one that doesn't do a lot of the squirrely things you can do in it today and it is fully playable from beginning to end. So if I can get his world file to run in Scenario3, then I know I'm making progress. Much like writing a NES emulator to run Super Mario Bros 1. :)

David

Sorry to have been gone so long, but apparently good things are in the works.

3-d Scen? It seems like it'll be tough on ya David, but I have full confidence in you. Good luck!

Decided to pop in after a long hiatus! A lot of stuff happened (i'll tell you later!) and now I'm just trying to get back in the swing of things, after I get over this nasty flu plus cold with sinus and chest congestion! (talk about a double whammy!) >_< anyway, 3d spell effects, explosions, etc. are cool in my book! [jumps for joy!] B)

Hehehe, I hope you're not too sore from the stick poking, Jed! :P [retracts stick]

Oh an influx of some of the regulars :)

David, I've been checking out the boards of basic4gl, and I'm impressed by the quality of some of the programmers there.
I don't doubt that there is great strength in this language, and am anticipating the additions you are making to the language itself so that more becomes possible. It is currently an incomplete language, from what I can gather, yet there seems to be ways around many difficult aspects, and I imagine that your MACRO development will boost the language for your needs.

But, is it realistic to say that the limitations to it are insignificant? Or will there be a sticking point somewhere down the line? Saying that, you overcame the lack of procedure writing! So, I imagine anything is possible.

*raises chalice* Hurrah!

Ouch, so many bruises... painful even to make a toast *glares at Spinner with the stick*

Hi Jed, Spinner, and Ru:

* Here's the currnet clypse:

Basic4GL has proved itself to be more than inefficient to write the entire RPGMaker in. What I am doing now is using the Basic4GL only as a mapping engine.

That is, during Gameplay you can scroll around just like you did before.
When an event is hit, an IXTO file is sent and the real engine (written in GFABasic) can act upon it. I don't think this will be slow since a request for the event will be made before the player ever moves to the square and, remember, both .EXEs will be running at the same time.

I - can't think of an easier way around this.
The high-speed mapping and animation speed for Basic4GL is just too good to pass up.

Basic4GL however also has zero structure (no PROCEDUREs and FUNCTIONs) and no way to make complex custom variable data types, virtual or authentic. :angry:

The controls to the engine will start out as the following:

1. Mapping, including fog-overlay and rain FX
2. Pop up windows with data/information, like player status.
3. Pop up windows for communication with Sprites and/or events.
4. Control over every single sprite and can enter a script to send to Basic4GL to animate based solely on the script.

All sound FX/Music will be carried out through GFABasic.

This will not be difficult to write in Basic4GL.
What WILL be difficult albeit impossible would be to write the whole engine in Basic4GL. GFABasic will carry the calculating load. :)

Sincerely,
/)avid