Some wonderful photo's of Aboriginal Afghans

Afghan Gait

Afgan,Tazi,Salugi,Saluqi SALUKI! There all the same,these pics are just long haied saluki,s or saluki types,their just adapted for their geographical area.The dogs the lads are running on the fens and other areas of Britian are english saluki types wich perform best in british conditions.In these countries of origin pedigrees are written in performance,in nature pedigree,s are written in performance. Most of the english show stuff is miles away from a true saluki,no matter how much crap they wright in their breed books about an ancient breed.How it moves round a ring is not important!Feathered or smooth is not important!

Regional difference's of one type of dog, I agree. However they are ancient breed which have remained unchanged for thousands of years and that is to me absolutly fasinating and totally engrossing. I agree many are drawn into this type of dog due to the history and alot of these are totally unsuitable keepers are these hunting dogs and this is the problem lies in my opinion.

The true native lines do have something the western "changed" dogs have lost through time, a thoughness and fieceness that stands them apart from the westnern modified dogs.

English longdog or smooth desertbred saluki bred by P,Sagar?

[IMG]http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/3043/saluqi2yw9.jpg[/IMG
Not alot of differece? Just saluki types bred for british condidtions bred down from proven hunter to proven hunter just like ,wolfs,lions ,etc,ect

I agree even people that really know Saluki's would not be able to tell the difference.

I think the real danger to Saluki's is show breeding, where Saluki are purely selected for breeding due to points on a written standard, this is a huge change in the selection process and is already changing Salukis and effectively creating dogs that are not able to do the job that would naturally be required of them. As you mention Saluki's have been bred best to best for thousands of years shaped by what is required of them in the hunt.

Even if you crossbreed Salukis the outcross will simply be absorbed and because you are asking the same from your dogs as the arabs do you will end up with basically same dogs within a few generations.

An example is the Banseji found in Central Africa is used to hunt through thick jungle shaped by the demands of the hunt. Away over in South America the tribes there have an identical dog used in the same manner as the basenji.

Just to add while I agree these 'Fen dogs' are indistinguishable from the some desertbreds, my own requirements in the hunt require different qualities (i hunt on very uneven and rough ground) and I have found the some crosses have lost the strength of foot that my Salukis have, therefore I would not take on another crossbred.

I think this is a problem with most breeds who had an original function. I'll never forget when I met the breeder from whom I bought my first borzoi. She was showing several dogs, but she breeds mostly for performance. Her dogs were consistently in the top lure coursing hounds of the country at that time. She was showing a little, very muscular girl that day, among others. The judges hated her. Said she was too small, and had too much muscle. Can you believe it? That little, muscular girl was #1 lure coursing hound in the country, and had been for several years. She was extremely functional, and in my opinion beautiful, but the conformation judges didn't like her.

One of my big hot buttons is how conformation breeding is ruining many good breeds. At its most extreme example, its practically destroyed the American-bred German shepherd dog (hip dysplasia) and I could go on and on.

Smooth Afghan Hounds:
Note the dogs with feather on the ears.
http://www.afghanen.nl/surpriseseng.htm

http://www.afghanhoundsinternational.net/gallery2/smooth

There is a dog I'm sure is a smooth as she doesn't look at all shaved on Petfinder. She's listed as a mix but I'm suspicious about that.
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displa...i?petid=7325603

Afghan tazis
http://www.afghanhoundsinternational.net/gallery/tazi

Some of the above photos are of the Registan dogs, which IIRC are in Sweden.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/s...tson/kalagh.htm

Look like very hairy Salukis, don't they? Be sure to click the on the bottom of that page for more photos.

Here is another smooth from a modern show breeder. Note how different the conformation of this dog is compared to the Registan dogs.
http://showdogcity.com/sites/Sundance.html

Turkumen Nissim's Laurell, born in 1945, bred by Juliette Levy. Watch this dog move. There is a nice collectedness about his gait that gives a sense of power, of readiness to bounce off in any direction. His white feet and the blaze on his nose would be considered no-nos in today's show ring, btw.
http://www.afghansofgrandeur.com/dogs/nissimslaurel.html

Contrast that with Tryst, a modern Afghan with typical modern exaggerated side gait, almost flinging the feet out in front.
http://www.afghansofgrandeur.com/dogs/tryst.html

Todays Afghans are mostly descended from the so-called mountain strain, imported into England and the United States in the twenties. I have read several critiques of how modern Afghans have lost their 'bouncy' gait, good for bounding over broken terrain in the mountains. I have two dogs here with the Bounce, neither of them have a gait that looks anything most dogs in the show ring. I take my dogs out running but I've just started doing it and they've not caught anything. It's very brushy here and the jackrabbits just zoom off into the brush.

Sorry, just meant to post some links and it turned into a lecture.

Thanks Devoidoftalent!
That's my kind of reading, I have looked for information on smooth Afghans before but never found much on them it would seem that there is something of a cover up with the smoothes, Guessed that many breeders might sell them as crosses rather than admitting to their top show lines producing with they would call 'substandard.'

One thing you really can see with the smoothes is the real substance to the afghans bone!

I would be a happy man if I could get feet like that on a saluki!

I've often thought about outcrossing my bitch to an afghan if I could find one with the right stuff.

I'd love to see some photo's of yours, it is great to hear that you hunt with them.
Afghans as breed deserve so much more than being paraded around a show ring and nothing else. They are hunting hounds lets keep them true to their heritage

I'm unsure about the genetics of smooth Afghans; if it was a simple recessive you'd think there would be a lot more of them, considering how small the founder population is for western Afghans. I'd like to see someone who's had a smooth pup do a repeat breeding or a backcrossing to a parent to see if they get another one.

My oldest Afghan bitch is from combination show/lure coursing lines and she can keep up with my old man Saluki (they are ten and nine, respecitively) without too much difficulty. Most lure coursing Afghans I've seen don't seem to be trying very hard. Maybe the coat interferes with their movement. The rest of my dogs come from either show lines that also course or people who breed their dogs as pets, not for show. None of them have that exaggerated movement you see in the ring.

My ancient digital camera has given up the ghost but I'm saving for a new one. I have three Afghans I'll be shaving down completely this spring when it gets warmer so I can get a good evaluation of their structure. I'll post some pics then if you're interested.

I'd like to see if that would be the case aswell, I wish some people had kept afghans going as coursing/hunting dog from when they first brought them into the western world like they did with Salukis.

I think most afghans are way too clever to seriously go for bit of plastic, my Salukis have very little time for it. It is good that afghan owners are doing something with their hounds.

I'd love to see some fresh country of origin blood put back into the breed and for it to be recognised as correct for an afghan. Don't get me wrong and think I am having rant at Modern Afghan Hound owners I just wish the coat thing hadn't become the most important thing.

I'll look forward to seeing your hounds all clipped out. :)

It's my understanding that it's illegal to export dogs out of Afghanistan. The the most recent import into the US that I'm aware of (and I have no idea how they managed to register the dog with the AKC since Afghanistan has no kennel club) was in 1984. I have a picture somewhere.



The temptation to try and grow a show coat on everything seems to be overwhelming:) If you just brush the coat to keep mats and debris out it will break off and maintain a functional length, although the modern dogs don't have the extensive patterning the old ones did. With my dogs if the coat is getting too long I clip it in the spring anyways because it gets godawful hot here, over 100F. One of my younger bitches I don't think I'm ever going to need to clip, she's so sparsely coated she actually has a mohawk instead of a full topknot.

I have a good-sized collection of vintage Afghan photos I've got from here and there and there are some dogs I really like. They look capable. The modern conformation has changed some, to a more extreme look, though you have to look carefully beyond the kind of contorted show stack some people use.

This dog is from 1936, the other two in the forties, I think.







My Afghans with play with the lure but lose interest quickly. My Saluki has never had any interest in the lure. He is from American show lines and is old enough I haven't taken him out to chase the local jackrabbits, I'm afraid he might run beyond himself and get injured.

Those dogs look like they could hunt!

Where have the bare pasterns and hocks gone on modern afghans? Why were they breed out?

I thought as much regarding the coat breaking with brushing, I imagine the coat could be stripped by hand in the same way that I strip the 'wool' from my saluki's shoulders, flanks and thighs after winter.
I have the book 'Hutchinson on Sighthounds' some good old photos in it of early import of afghans, I'd scan them and post them up but would probably get done for breach of copyright knowing my luck. :unsure:

I'm sure the original Afghan could be revived without fresh blood if enough people got together and selected the right hounds, tested in the hunting field.

I suppose the dogs without patterning have a smoother look, although there are plenty of modern hounds that are patterned, it just doesn't go as high as the old hounds. I have three dogs that are patterned, with just the front of the pastern and the front of the hind leg right below the hocks short-haired. I saw some recent picture of rescued hounds that had very much the old look to them, but I don't know where they came from.

I'd like to import an aboriginal afghan. Maybe someday.