I'm starting to doubt my struthio project truly is a struthio. Though I have very little of it, there are things that just don't look right.

The Illia are all wrong, too broad proximally and they lack the distintive hook on the anterior end that every struthio reconstruction I've seen has. The ischia cutoff abruptly, and don't point forward distally like in reconstructions.

On the tail, we lack the stubby chevrons of S. altus, but the medial caudals match for both Struthiomimus and Ornithomimus. Proximal caudals are seperated from their centra and mixed up. Silly juveniles.

For the lefs we have a tibia, fibula, and tarsals. Nothing too diagnostic there. Missing just about everything forward of the pelvis.

So far, nothing screams "STRUTHIO!" to me, but I'm not finding anything else that suggests a better guess. Anyone have any ideas?

Ornithomimosaurs aren't something I'm strong with, but here's some suggestions, why not make comparisons with other ornithomimosaurs, including other ornithomimids like Dromiceiomimus, and basal ones as well, maybe check out the character lists in some of the more recent phylogenetic analyses, and see how it compares overall. Perhaps it really isn't Struthiomimus, but also perhaps it isn't Ornithomimus either. Can you post images of it? It's hard to make comments without anything to go by really.

I'll take photos on Monday when I get back into the lab. I'm slowly getting through the concretion, and what I'm finally revealing is what's giving me the confusion. You have any references for ornitomimid carachters?

Also what ornitomimids are found from the Hell Creek.

My main reference is the "Small theropods vol. 1" preperator's guide that was hanging around the lab. I also downloaded Osborn's paper on Ornitholestes, Struthiomimus and Tyrannosaurus from the AMNH site. It's from 1917 and I'm guessing some changes have been made since then.

Check http://app.pan.pl/ to get Kobayashi and Azuma's description of Sinornithomimus, at least, it's got a basic list of characters for its analysis, nothing substantial though. I'm sure if I checked my files, I'd have a few things too.

OK, photos are in!

Photo 1: the whole block. Small dinos are fun sometimes... just not this one.

In this we see fromj the top moving clockwise: L illium shoved up and forward, R illium, paired ischia, and pubis.

Photo 2: Detail of the Ischia (looking at the upper rear side) and pubis

Photo 3: Detail of the R illium, medial view. Notice lack of the downward hooky-outy thingy on the anterior (left side of bone) end.

Photo 4: Left illium, lateral view. Same as above.

Photo 5 and Photo 6

Shots of the 3 medial caudals that should be fairly distinctive. LOOOOOONG prezygos.

Any chance you can hold off making an identification until it's further prepped? :cool:

HEY!

I cleared off at least 2 square inches today :D

Ran out of aluminum oxide, so I had to switch over to Dolomite. Bicarb does absolutely nothing to the matrix.

I'll be taking daily photos so we'll see how it progresses. Probably slower now due to the concretion, plus I've gotten the OK to finish the femur drom our Daspletosaurus when I get sick of the Ornithomimid.

From the photos you should still be able to see:

1) shape of the pubic boot
2) connection and relative length of the ischis
3) shape of the illia (these are soooo thin, less than that of a piece of cardboard)
4) shape of caudal vertebrae.

All the chevrons that we have are long and slightly rearward curving. None of the stumpy ones as on the holotype Struthiomimus yet.

Who is a current ornithomimid researcher that I could contact to ask questions?

"hooky-outy thingy" = glad to see someone talks like I do! :D

All I can say is :P I guess we should see how finished theirs first lol :crazy: Good luck! Maybe you shoudl contact ....what age/fm is it from again?

Hell Creek fm, 66MYA or so.

The Daspletosaur femur is Judith River, 75MYA, and has a lot of Ironstone concretion too. But largest Daspletosaur so far found (Femur length over 1m). Much harder bone thatn the ornithomimid/concretion jawbreaker nightmare.

Maybe if we can get Bakker out for the symposium (hey, he's just up the road in Boulder, and it's been 4-5 months since he's dropped by) and maybe Breithaupt again (My wife LOVES drinking with him) we can get an ID.

My main poblem is that in the past 12 months, I've prepped on a Lambeosaurus, a coelocanth, an Enchodus, a polycotylid plesiosaur, a bonebed containing somewhere between 6 and 21 elasmosairs, a Tylosaurus, an Edmontosaurus, 5-6 Triceratops, a Daspletosaurus, and now this thing. It seems that whenevr I just get my head around a critter and figure out the anatomy and matrix, it's off to something completely different.

That could be a good thing. See what Brent has to say. He can probably tell you the best person to talk to. Brent is a riot to hang out with! I can't wait to see him in a few weeks at this silly Paleofest thing.

The joy of prepping theropods. All sorts of nooks and crannies. Got 6 caudal neural arches done today, a chevron, and some gastral frags. The big concretion block is ticking me off though. Luckily tomorrow I get to work on Icthyodectes for a sanity saving exercise.

I'll post more progress pics on Friday.