Don't know how to play, want to learn something even if it's not completely the ok way, but nonetheless it's how i learned to play! It's a style of dnd that is more based of RPGs that is much easier for a newer person to understand.

~fixed~

D&D is easy to understand. Stop catering to idiots and make them use their brains for once.

You pretty much have to be unable to read to not understand it, it's put in the most basic form it can be without actually removing rules and breaking the games excuse for balance further.

Dammit, do you have to be so much of a bitch ALL the time? Seriously, instead of just making scathing remark, act like the college student you supposedly are and back up your arguments! It's not that I don't agree that D&D is simple to the point of being broken and that it doesn't, in its base form, encourage very good role-play, but at least I point out the diminishing return of a level, the non-scaling damage (only somewhat mitigated by multiple attacks) and the number of rules that it encourages which creates an annoying new-generation rules-lawyer.

And on that note, there are at least a few rules that would balance the game MORE if removed. Stuff like the overly complicated skill system that never sees adequate use. Yes, D&D is currently head and shoulder above the older Eds. but it still has a long way to go.

Of course, a lot of these flaws are more headaches of the GM by virtue of having to deal with them so that it's transparent to the players.

I don't play D&D but I am starting to learn. The tutorial at the Wizards of the Coast website was recommended to me as a good way to learn the basics and I must say I felt it was. I still would not feel entirely comfortable playing but I am no longer a complete jackass around the D20 system. Just a normal jackass.

and uhh... what part of the skill system is complicated? Because all of the standard rules are quite east to deal with there and you don't get anything even remotely complicated until you start digging into the supplimentry rules.

And you don't actually need to tell your players all the rules, just the ones that you aren't willing to manage for them. I for one prefer to do all the management myself so i don't really say much outside of stuff that would prevent them from doing something.

I would like to point out that D&D is actually several different systems. D20 is only the most recent version.

I personally don't think it's the DM's job to manage a person's character for them and I wouldn't let a DM manage a character for me. If I don't know what's going on I don't want to play.

when you say D&D it means d20. AD&D means 2nd edition. No one in their right mind plays 1st edition.

I just stated i manage all the aspects that aren't immediately relevent to the player. For example, numbers, i like to keep my players from knowing them because you don't exactly know the proficency of anything you can do to a precise value. It goes a long way to reduce munchkin'ism.

Wait, numbers as in the character sheet? Which means.... you end up managing everything except roleplaying.

Unless I'm misreading you, that seems a tad extreme. I can fully agree with doing some stuff yourself, but doing everything seems like it would take a lot of the fun away from the players.

I don't know, I rather like the idea myself. What does knowing the exact number on your listen check or your armour class actually do for your ability to role play? I recall them making jokes about this kind of thigk all the time in Dork Tower. Not showing numbers to anyone would take things back to a more uncertain level. Like "I think I can take him. Can I take him?" I play tabletop games for the role-play, not roll-play, so not having to track my own stats is a boon. Actually, I could see that speeding up a lot of the aspects of the game that I don't like. It's not the kind of thing that I personally would be able to keep up with though.

That line of thought, I can understand, but what if you're playing a magic caster? It would be idiotic to assume that a mage or a cleric wouldn't know how many spells of a certain type they could cast in a day, so the player would at least have to know that stat.

The question is, is it stats or stat checks that is being taken out of the player's hand? My dms have generally kept to keeping the results of the check out of my hand (IE how well, exactly, I've done,) even when rolling the D20; that can be easily handled by giving a description instead of 'oh, you beat the DC by such-and-such number.

I think my opinion is partially due to the systems I play, where the stats tend to effect how a character would react in a situation more than they do in the various D20 systems. At least in, in White Wolf games it does, what with the dots devoted to willpower, backgrounds, virtues/vices, et cetera.

first order business, I had assumed that i had actually stated that i don't do anything that would impede roleplaying. Seeing how knowing spells and such is rather relevent to know what they can do and thus roleplay, i had assumed that one would be able to confer that i wouldn't be doing that... need i go on?

I don't let players know the specfic numbers of checks of any sort, and i prefer to actually keep them from knowing the exact value of anything. I do this because i like to fudge with the numbers and people tend to complain if i do it in the open because then they bitch about why i did or didn't do it and then whine about fairness and such.

Long story short, numbers make people want to rollplay or do the player vs. DM bullshit. And of course, the dreaded case of munchkinism and rule lawyers.


...and you know, if you need to look at your stats to know what you can do you should probably be playing WoW.

Yeah, I get what you're saying now.

And it's not like I HAVE to look at my stats to know what I'm doing, I never said that XD. Call it a guide to acting in character; I personally hate excessive dice-rolling anyway, so it's really no skin off my back if the DM does most of it.

But different systems are different entities. I don't think I'd ever look to a D20 character sheet as a reference for a character's personality.

well with VtR it doesn't bother me so much since the dots are just a visual reference for "bad", "not so bad", "good", and so on. With D&D its an entirely different story.

Yeah, definitely.

Can you tell which system I prefer? XD

This is uber-late in coming but my :2cents: put in:

I personally prefer a good story line to a ton of dice rolling action myself.

I think D&D is a good way to get started in tabletop RPG's. It's simple, easy to understand and a good way to introduce people into more complicated things later. If you toss someone who has never played a tabletop RPG into something with a shitton of stuff to remember right off the bat it's going to discourage them and make them not want to play. And please don't get started on "blahblahblah if they're too stupid to get it right away they shouldn't be playing" BS either. I'm a pretty intelligent person and it took me a while to catch on but once I did I started having a lot of fun. Learning something new always takes time and people should be given a chance. EVERYONE had to start somewhere.

I've never been much of a rules :godwin:. I'd rather my players have a good time. If that makes me a bad DM then I'm happy to be a bad DM.

I don't have all my stats for all my characters memorized. I'm not that obsessive and I don't get to play at all anymore so yeah, I'll have to glance at my character sheet. Big whoop. It doesn't make me a bad gamer..it just makes sure I know if I can pull off what I want to do. It doesn't affect my acting in character at all. The characters personality is easiest I think. ^_^

Not everyone who plays RPG's sets out to be a "hardcore gamer". A good majority of them just want to have fun and isn't that the point of games anyways?
:alco:

You are a potential Hitler that must be stopped. The Debbie of all Downers, the wuh - wuuuhhhhhiest of all wuh - wuhers. You and your whining, pessimistic ways must be stopped.

Well it's good to see that you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. It's heartwarming to se such ignorance. LDS made good points in that post: the stats in D&D are far too restrictive to allow the game to be sustainable past a certain point.

PS: Stop abusing Domo-kun like that.

i will be bring my D&D books...i'm not the best dungeon master....but...if ya see me around....and i like ya :lolguy: your welcome to join our little group...we might play a little at night....as if i plan on sleeping at the con anyways :P