Ok, I know this sounds crazy, but how about having a service sunday morning?
We could ask VA Vic Mignogna to lead a special service (he is some sort of minister, and apparently encouraged the Christians next door to Ohayocon to try and convert us)

I think it's something you couldn't find at any other con, and with all the hentai and booze, and underaged cheerleaders I think a lot of people might need to spend a little time with the maker!
Besides, it might open the door for a few more people who wouldn't be allowed to come otherwise!

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm for it but religon always brings trouble what about other beliefs I don't wanna become a Chirstian Anime Con

I like it a lot! If there was one I'd go to it. ^_^

It would be an anime related sermon, but it would be serious too though... if that clears things up at all.

I also agree with Panda, though. It would seem rather biased.

I think that might be too touchy a subject even for this con. Religion never seems to sit well in any situation.

as long as they dont try to grab me and drag me there... i dont care

We would make it very clear that we are not a Christian anime con, but simply that we are going to have an anime church service sunday morning.
Plus, I think it might help us land Vic' as a guest which would be cool.

Well this is the peoples Con so after some sleep oh and a little thought I think it would be an good Idea as long as it doesn't make people uncomfortable.

Sure, that's great. Although I won't be going, cause I'm Catholic.

As cool as the idea is you've also got to take into consideration how retarded a good portion an anime fandom is. Considering how they would take this and how it will be taken by the neo-pagan-bullshit types anyway. I personally would goto it simply because it'd be neat thing to see. I dunno. Your decision, mate.

I'm catholic too so is Kat

To be honest I dunno if that's such a great idea. I've noticed lately that alot of Christians view anime as "violent and sinful." I for one wouldn't be against it but at the same time I'd not really like to see any con-goer get bashed because of his or her beliefs.

But at the same time, if a service were to be held and go well, perhaps the space between religion and anime could be bridged a bit. Good idea, if it pans out and happens for sure I'll attend.

If people at the con want to go to church (or whatever their respective thing is), I'm sure there's someplace nearby that they can go to. A religious sermon, in my opinion, has no place at an anime convention. Personally, I would likely not attend AP at all (if I'm even in the country at the time :P) if there was going to be a sermon.

What I think could be interesting and along a similar line of anime and religion is having a panel or something discussing the attitude of religious organizations towards anime and how to try and improve the perception of it, so it's not really endorsing one religion over any other belief (as hosting a sermon would do, whether or not you say it isn't endorsing that religion). And, you can invite that Vic guy to participate in the discussion, if he promises to leave the proselytizing outside the con, as we're not here to convert people or to pressure them to convert.

or not.



If you have any idea of what happened at Ohayocon at all you would know that Vic pretty much saved the entire saturday night from turning into a big war. He eased tensions on both sides. he was totally going all Ghandi on us. He didn't try to convert anyone. He simply was the bridge between the two groups and it really made the convention a more pleasant experiance after he spoke.

Well I don't know. On one hand, it is a pretty interesting idea. We could even call it "Animass" or something. My only suggestion would be to make it a mock service (not to mock God, or athiests though). A lot of people are turned off by going to Church/Mass, so I would say if you were going to stick with that idea, make sure it would be very religious-neutral. Religion is already a touchy subject and I don't know if it is such a good idea to have yaoi, yuri, and other various hentai promoted in the same place as a service was unless the service was advertised to be fun, enjoyable, and a good reason to hear Vic speak. Otherwise we are not only offending agnostic/athiests with "bringing God to an anime convention," but also offending heavy religious people (of every religion) by saying God promotes the acts of many things (which are not looked upon so favourable in any prayerful organization) sold at the convention.


On another note, a lot of people enjoy anime for its unconventional and unconservative mindset. Many animes (including FMA, Vic's job!) reject God (using God as an excuse or a reason to control other's) or promote God as a destrictive force, have many villians who rape and destroy (but are also extremly sexy and alluring), and promote sex, incest, extreme nudity and other "deviant" qualtites. That is why people LIKE anime - because it creates an arena where things that are usually taboo become suddenly easily discussed. I almost am afriad that bringing a religious theme or even a service into the mix, although worthy of thought, might freak a lot of people out from being open - or maybe it could say that "Even God accepts us crazies."

It's really up to you, but I'm saying your risking a lot of controversy that we may not be ready for in our first years of con.

The simple fact is Anime fans have an endless beleifs if we bring that into the con it'll bring somthing i don't wanan see we'll be entaining one group... very event should be allow anyone to join in and if we hold this people of other faiths would be upset. It would create unessary tension on con-goers and staff alike. I'm on Staff i don't wanna explain why we're only entaining one beleif and it's impossbile to entertain all beliefs and it's lily we would loose con-goers to this idea so I really don't wanna see this.

I'm Catholic too... hmm... it seems that while a service isn't a bad idea, a prodestant service might not be the right one!!

Snowy: I'm amazed at how closed minded you are to reject a con you are actually staff on just because it would cater to the religious otaku. I'm seriously disgusted by you.

Craig: for once I agree with you, those psuedo/ wanna-be pagans/ playgans will probably take huge offence to anything that would remotely signify that we are not completely opposed to God and all His teachings.
Still, the fact that it looks like we're about to table this idea because we are afraid of the outcome makes me want to do it all the more!!! I don't want to cower away from ANYTHING!! We're the con that will wrestle bears and kill famous webcomic artists! We don't back down! If there is controversy, we dive TOWARDS it!! If people are too uptight with us having a service or can't deal with the fact that some of their fellow fans beleive in the mainstream higher power, then fuck them! This is fucking America and we'll do whatever we fucking want! And if that means going to fucking church on fucking suday, than so fucking be it!!

We have mythology panels, why can't we have a religious thing? If someone wants to organize a SERIOUS, ANIME-RELATED pegan service, or muslim, or jewish, or Jans, or whatever, then we'll have that too!!! Especially if they get a big-name voice actor to do it!!

For everyone else: I thought of just having an anime and theology panel, but that is pretty common and doesn't really push any envelopes.
What if we stuck to morality, and didn't specifically mention any names (like Jesus, for instance) and just focused on the high concept?

Mike.... It's not our job to push envoples it's our job to entertain. This honestly pisses me off... you wanna push the envople all night and then repent by morning... You yelled at me many times about keeping this con to anime what dose a sunday service have to do with anime! yes religon is in some anime but NO ONE comes to an Anime Con to Pray, If they wanna pray the find a near by church. Shit we can provide a list BUT it is NOT our job to provide it. This will turn away more Attendees then bring in and Anime Punch can't go pushing people away!

Look at this post alone you spliting the few people we have abaord do you wanna really do this on a large scale cause WE ARE NOT the only choice for cons the weekend....

Even if you offer other relious groups the right to hold a service we can't give them places to do it one group will get a smaller room and they'll be pissed about that we'll shut down a video room and that'll piss off the people watching in there what about people that don't believe in god at all we give them an old fashioned screw you? Their is a reason Cons do not Go into God. This is somthing We should not Cover

Mike you wanting to push forward cause people don't want it is a completely wrong attaitude you say we're here to serve the attendees yet you wanna offend them as well AP was to make EVERYONE happy.

Don't Get me wrong I beleve in God afterall he gave me Kat to love on and the many goods in my life but I also know that faith should not be pushhed on others and if you hold this if you like it or not in some way some form faith will be pushed..... I don't want this to become Chistrian Anime Con....

P.S. I may Disagree with this either way I'll be working for AP I just think it will hurt us....

I totally have an idea for this. If Vic won't do it I will in a heart beat....I'll message you my aim so I can talk to you about it. Kill Pan I'm totally sorta stealing your suggestion.

where are we gonna find somone to run it that is trained for it? won't they all be doing their churches services?

My 42 year old mom who is looking over my shoulders says what would probably work best would be to have a room dedicated to a small prayer meeting, not a formal service.

I personaly am a Pagan (No, Im not a neo pagan, I do follow the original pagan belife) I do not see anything wrong with this except one thing. Will it be a waste of time or no? The younger crowd of America today rarely goes to church. I myself have been to church a few times in the past 8 years or so. For family deaths and for my wedding. No personally I wouldnt go to it because its not my thing. But Im looking upon the problem of the age range being mainly between 15-25. Which "most" people in this age range do not go to church. I do know a few religious pwople around here that do. But would having a sermon truely have enough people go to it to be worth the time and effort? Personally I dont see the point in saying "if the con has a sermon I wont go to the con" So I dont think it will turn people away honestly. Considering the con will have other things going on to intrest people. I believe persoanally more people will go because of boredom (it will be sunday after all and the con will by dying down to end) than will go for the religious aspect. Anyway, this is an interesting idea.

Thank you!

Panda: It would be very much anime related in that all the preaching would need to have anime examples.

I'm not sure what divination Vic's a part of, so I can't say for sure how they do things (I'm catholic, and the only sinful... I mean prodestant church I've been to recently was of the Nazarine persuasion), but I'm sure he can rely heavily on anime themes.

As for turning people away. This is a con FOR EVERYONE. I am sick of the factioning that is going on in the fandom community right now, and I'm not going to cater to it. If people can't get over the fact that some fans are Christian, or that some like Gundam, or that some like Fruit Baskets, or that some people like to larp while others play Yugioh, or that some people really honestly do prefer dubs or subs, or some people don't think that Kent from Princess Ai is supposed to be Kurt Cobain, then I don't want them at this con. This con is for everyone, and we will do our best to cater to everyone.
I am honestly shocked that there is so much projected hostility over a single event. We do what other cons don't. We do what other cons won't. And we will NOT be scared out of doing something because we're afraid of what people will think. If we cared what people thought of us we wouldn't all be talking about crossplaying as little girls!!

Liquid: You're right to think it might not be a very big event. I honestly can't make an estimate on how well attended it will be. A large percent of the fans have Christian roots, and though they arn't actively so (or at least were they on their own wouldn't be) perhaps they would still show up here to see the anime take on it. Also, a lot of people who would otherwise have little interest would show up for novelty purposes, and maybe the fans of the voice actor leading the sermon would show up just for him. Likewise, maybe no one would show up. After all, there are a lot of different Christians out there, and some of us don't mix well.

Craig: PM me your idea, but I'd prefer to do this only if we had an actual guest leading it.

Everyone: Don't forget also that this WOULD help us land a popular voice actor.

he's a bapist... and you said he was trying to convert people at ohya do you really want him convert our attendees no matter the fame i don't want him selling his beliefs at our con....

Well Just throwin my opinion in yet again.

I've been looking at this and it seems to have very little middle ground on the forum. And from what i've seen of the forum most people here are very open minded and good with comprimise. And thats what worries me. If a group of level headed individuals are having trouble finding good middle ground then what's going to happen when the con actually happens.

I think this would be an amazing opportunity but even more so if we broadened it to do a theology panel that would break down and show all religions effects on Anime.

there were so many animes I've seen where religion is played so heavily into the subplot its not funny.

For the record I'm an agnostic. So I kinda don't have a stance on which religion just my stance on religion as a whole

Throwing in my two cents ...

This is just my opionion ... and im crazy so ...

I don't think this is such a fantastic Idea .. Conventions are suppose to be diffrent from the real world right? even though they are not sometimes because there is still unwanted drama .. I remember when I went to Ohayocon my first year .. I was trying to get away from Our Reality World set of mind we have .. and just have fun and enjoy the convention .. even if it sucks. having a sermon on sunday ..... well .. its already not getting a good reaction ... it could just get worse at the con ...

Baptists scare me. Catholics scare me too, actually. I'm atheist and most religions think I'm a walking sin anyhow, but I'm not opposed to you holding some sort of service. I just don't think it should be a huge event. My dad is a minister. Maybe that makes me more open-minded towards religion? I dunno. I think it's stupid to shy away from a con just because they do something you may not like too well. Behind the scenes, a lot of cons do things we don't like. If Vic is giving the sermon, that will be the first religious thing I'll have gone to willingly in a very long time. I dunno, it sounds like an ok idea, just keep in mind you might be stepping on a few people's toes with this religion thing.

Thanks to the ministry of life church...I'm a Reverend.

YOu wouldn't find me scary, Cloud, I can guarantee that. But I was considering this whole idea and I honestly don't think it's worth the hassle. Call me lazy, but God forbid (no pun intended) that some playgans would try and crash the event, or extreme yaoi fans would go nuts, thinking that religion is invading. It just won't be worth it. Plus, if there are any other decent events scheduled during that same time, no one will bother to go. And on a more Catholic note, I think it's a bit disrespectful to throw in anime themes on a sermon. It will make the occasion less serious and more easily mocked. Besides, my parents will probably force me to go to real Catholic church sometime that weekend.

Naru, I am an extreme yaoi fan, among other things. And about you being scary, well... we'll see. I have to agree, though. Even though I don't really like religion, I don't think it would be a good idea to put anime into a religious service. And besides that, how are you going to cater to everyone? Besides christians there are Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. You can't possibly make a service that fits all of them. It's a nice thought, but...

I was not going to really get into this convo but it is interesting-none the less.
I think that there has been a few valid points made throughout the convo, but...
I think the best one is from that quote!

I think if you were to try anything, base it sortof like a panel feel. Not a full blown sermon!!
That would be cool enough where I think I would go and I am not really religious.
Because there are MANY ties into religion and anime story lines.
Like the end to "Big 0" not including games" FFVII" " Xenogears" etc.
Your right, that this is an AMAZING idea. It is just going to difficult to link the subjects together in a peaceful/co-existing manner!
I think that idea would work though.

Final Fantasy X has the most amazing religious plot I have ever seen. When I first got it, I was all "wtf?" and I told my dad that he would enjoy this game because everyone in the entire world was a Yevonite (Yevon is the god in FF X) and very into their practice. But then the game continued and I got further into the plot and it was like "... Crap. Not telling Dad about that part."
I hope that was spoiler-free.... :unsure:

Meh...dunno where you've been but Catholic sermons are already pretty easily mocked. I say have it anyway. If for nothing to have it as a panel discussing the connections between Christianity and Anime/Video Games. As stated the amazing amounts of games that use ((essentially) the christian religions as a major part of the story. Just a thought.

In many ways, the religous story in FFX was like the Reformation, but I won't get into that. Too many spoiler chances. Anyway, I urge you not to do this because I think it will just offend to many people and turn them off. Enough said.

Well, I would like to have a panel like that anyhow.


As for the church idea, there is no point in discussing it further for right now. I'm going to do a lot of soul searching on this one (no pun intended), talk to Vic about it, and talk to random people at anime clubs and cons. We have a long time to set this up anyhow.

So far everyone I've talked to (even pegans and stuff) think it would be alright, but that might be because I have time to explain it to them. The main issue that most of you are bringing up would be the knee-jerk reaction to it, and I'll approach a lot of people a lot of different ways to try and get the sum of all opinions.

Thank you all for your input on this one.

(( I know its a bit late, but I just joined the forums. XD Bear with me))

Hmm... I agree with everyone that its a rather touchy subject. I myself don't adhere to any particular religion, but I wouldn't mind attending this.

Personally, I suggest that you keep it nondenominational. The last few weddings I've been to kept to that idea, and everyone was happy in the end. ^^;

Oh please! Send the playgans to me. I'm Pagan myself, and I've had it up to here with people whining about not being respected and then going right ahead and bashing Christianity.

I personally don't have a problem with you guys having a service, as long as you don't, you know, try to convert anyone (I wasn't at Ohayocon, so I'm unfamiliar with the event everyone is refering to). Two things to keep in mind though: If you allow one religion to be represented, you cannot refuse any other group, and also the fact that not all sects of Christianity agree with eachother.

Like I've said earlier, it would be a non-denominational type of things. The morals would probably be based in Christianity, but there would be little or no mention of God, and all the referances would be from Anime, not a holy book.

Of course we would love for other faiths to do similar things, especially if they get a big name voice actor to lead the service!

Actually, if you keep it like that, I doubt there would be much need for alternative services, since most of what are considered Christian values are found in most of the world's religions.

What you're describing sounds a lot like what we did at the camp I worked at. Each Sunday durring camp they would pick different traits, like friendship, honesty, trust etc. Staff would read short stories or tell anecdotes relating to their chosen trait. Would it be something like that, only with anime stores or convention anecdotes (and minus the cheesy camp songs, naturally :rolleyes: )?