36m92cm4mm and the Holy cow!!! :katamari4

Bonus (on separate runs):

Holy cow in 2:08!!! :brucelee
647 objects!!! :brucelee

:pandadance :pandakick :pandazzz

Moo! :D

Good god, man, you annihilated those records.... :crybaby

I mean: :applause

Thanks! :china

I got all 3 scores on Sunday (7/27). I have little doubt you can beat my time score, but I hope you don't mind my saying: It was greatly satisfying to beat one of your times, regardless of how long it lasts. Your speed is nearly unmatchable (and probably unbeatable, MAS 1 for example) on the other levels.

I didn't spend nearly as much time on the objects and speed scores as I did on the diameter. I might as well say this now: I've never had as much fun playing this game as I have the last several days playing Make Taurus. While I am a little tired of it right now, I think it's my new favorite level.

Story: After almost quitting the game entirely, I decided on Thursday (7/24) to watch slo_bro's 18m+ video. For some reason I had never seen it before, and I've now seen it a grand total of once. While watching it, I wondered why he was going so slowly at the end. Ha! Well, now I know. As those of you who've been to 17m+ on this level already know, you slow down almost to a complete stop at that size.

My previous best (before ever seeing the video) was 15m54cm6mm. By Thursday night, I had 19m83cm9mm. On Friday a real breakthrough happened: 27m96cm4mm. What a blast! Something really freaky happens at 23m and something else happens at 27m50cm. Saturday was even better: 35m2cm8mm. Given the items in the level under that size that I had missed, I still wasn't satisfied. I streamlined my route to the maximum on Sunday, giving me my current score.

I remember feeling the same way about Make Taurus last year. But it doesn't surprise me that you've beaten my scores. No score is unbeatable. Congratulations on a triple victory!

You're playing your cards close to your vest! :lol You've really got me curious about what happens at 23 meters, and then also at 27.5 meters. I'm looking forward to an explanation. And hopefully I'll get a chance to play sometime soon.

About the scores, thanks again. :D

Diameter: What happens at 23m and 27m50cm is so bizarre that I really don't want to spoil it for anyone. I'll put the explanation somewhere in this post with a spoiler tag so you can decide whether to read it or not.

Before you start, make sure you're familiar with the locations of every last cow item in the level that's larger than cow-man.

First, let's talk about how to get larger than 18m-18m25cm. As you may have guessed by now, it's possible to beat the Atomic Slowdown that occurs at ~17m. Try this: Start with slo_bro's Holy cow speed run strategy. You can use your own, but I find his to be great for starting diameter runs. At 6m44cm4mm, get all of the following: palm trees on the beach, telephone poles (you can skip the one near where you drop into the pond on the speed run), traffic signals, matsuri tents, log cabin, stationary vehicles, regular trees, cherry trees, and any remaining falling rocks. Get most of the moving vehicles. You'll probably get most of them anyway as you move from one large item to the next. Getting them all would be great, but unnecessary for what we're trying to do.

What are we trying to do? We're trying to reach 15m52cm1mm for the cowsheds without touching the lower town. Don't bother with the clock pedestal yet. (You can get it now by climbing up onto the roof, but we're trying to save a few seconds and it will be a faster pickup later.) There are 3 advertising balloons over the cowsheds. Get the 2 leftmost ones as you face the large building. The other one isn't necessary, and we'll be back. Besides, it's not worth it just now. (Try it and see why! On second thought, don't.) Get the prefab house at the ranch. Get the supermarket sign, the drawbridge and all 3 parking turntables on it (you may need to spin in place to get them), boiler room, and smokestack. Get the car and 4 palm trees on the same side of the parking lot as the boiler room. (Don't bother with the car and trees on the other side yet. You can climb over the bathhouse to get them, but it's risky.) After the smokestack, drop into the water and dash for the small fishing boat. Keep dashing around the beach. (Do the best you can. Your ability to dash becomes seriously hampered at this point.) Turn right at the end and roll up both cowsheds on the beach.

Roll into the water and "dash" pathetically over to the park. (My current strategy gets me here with 5 full minutes left. This is also essential for the very highest scores because of the slowdown.) Very carefully roll up into the park (you may need to spin in place) and get all 3 shops (avoiding the Holy cow). You may have to be a bit spontaneous about which direction you move: If the cow is nearby going clockwise, go counterclockwise for the shops. This is the preferred method. If it's nearby going counterclockwise, go clockwise. The reason it matters is that sometimes if you push over the wall to the right of the giant daruma, you slip and fall into the cow umbrella on the beach. Leaving to the left is better and has never given me a problem. It's actually rare that I ever slip and fall going to the right, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Roll through the pond (getting the wrestling ring) and into the lower town. This is easier said than done. You'll be barely crawling now at ~17m. From the wrestling ring, aim slightly right and push forward toward the upper right corner of the hill leading to the lower town. Barely graze the plastic greenhouse with the far right side of your katamari to avoid the cow umbrella. Make sure you get the greenhouse, though. Keep pushing. This is the most boring part of the level, but I promise it picks up very soon. If you're doing it right (pushing diagonally uphill to the right) you'll eventually roll up a phone booth. You're almost home. Keep pushing! (Still? Yep.) You'll start to roll up buildings. Make sure to roll left for the houses before rolling up the whole town because there are cow vending machines behind the convenience store that faces the pachinko parlor. If you got everything I mentioned, they will have disappeared by the time you come to them (more on disappearance later). At this point, the Atomic Slowdown is gone! Hurray! Roll slightly right for the last convenience store in this town. Roll left and forward into the schoolyard. Get busy with the huge trees! Yippee! Get the clock pedestal while you're at it. The only thing to worry about here is a dairy cow or two in the loop of falling items. Make sure you miss them. Use your look button (L1) if necessary. Make friends with that button, because you'll...

Hey! Wait a minute!

***SPOILER ALERT***

At 23m, you grow. What happens when you do is the most bizarre thing in the game by far: you become blinded by your own katamari! The perspective change that usually comes with a growth spurt...well, doesn't. You'll need to use L1 to get around at all. I wasn't even aware of this (!), but you can use it to aim your katamari as well as just look. Find enough nearby items to keep growing. (Those huge trees near the park look tasty!) At 25m, you grow again. However, nothing changes. You still can't see anything. Roll into the upper town and get large buildings.

At 27m50cm, you grow yet again. This is perhaps even weirder: You can see again! Best of all, you can move at full speed!

***END SPOILERS***

After 27m50cm, there's very little you can't roll up. Go nuts.

Coming soon: a full list of items and sizes (18m+) and a killer move to do early in the level that vastly improves the experience in the upper town later on.

Disappearance Chart

Note: These are only approximations. The higher up you go, the less accurate they become.

~8m60cm => calf
~10m => "no stealing cows" (sign)
~10m40cm => cow pylon
~16m => cow-man
~20m => cow vending machine
~22m50cm => cute cow/dairy cow

The cow umbrellas, oxen, and Holy cows never disappear.

About disappearance: Sometimes the game won't be able to keep up with you. When this happens, items don't disappear like they should. For example: I've seen calves at ~9m that shouldn't have been there. When this happens, I recommend stopping and reloading your game or turning the console off and back on. This is because one occurrence like this may infect the rest of the level, and who needs it? Also, approach items that are supposed to disappear soon with extreme caution in case they don't disappear fast enough. For example: Roll very carefully in the lower town as you approach the schoolyard. This will give the game the extra few seconds it needs to get rid of the cow vending machines.

36m95cm!!! :brucelee

I bumped my score up a little bit. I would have bumped it up more, but there wasn't much left to get! :D

If you read the previous post before any edits, I've made a few changes. I wrote that post from memory (except for the disappearance chart), and I had forgotten a few small details: 1) Just now when I was playing, I wound up at the cowsheds a few times without enough size to get them. Problem: I wasn't getting the parking turntables on the drawbridge. 2) How you get the shops in the park isn't as important as I made it sound at first.

Also, here's something that's not in that post: The slowdown at roughly 16m-19m comes and goes. Sometimes you can roll quickly in the park, and sometimes you can't. More usefully, it's actually possible to dash (sort of) at ~17m as you head up into the lower town. The results are mixed, however. They range anywhere from "not as bad as I thought" to "completely worthless." Give it a shot anyway, especially from the park to the pond.

***

Edit: I forgot a few more items. Get the 2 matsuri tents and the log cabin in the upper town before getting the cowsheds and going to the park. I'll add this bit to the previous post also.

It's not necessary to get all the vehicles in the upper town before the cowsheds, etc. However, I certainly recommend getting all the stationary ones and making sure any that flip don't land anywhere unreachable.

37m8cm5mm!!! :katamari4

Key Item List

18m-20m:

18m18cm1mm | Lighthouse
18m24cm7mm | Radio Tower
18m64cm | Huge Tree
19m5cm3mm | School Clocktower
19m37cm6mm | Giant Daruma

20m-25m:

22m48cm2mm | Silo
22m80cm6mm | Smokestack
23m8cm8mm | Marlin Building
23m19cm5mm | Pachinko Parlor
24m17cm1mm | Supermarket
24m44cm6mm | Parking Garage

25m-30m:

27m85cm1mm | Bathhouse
29m85cm | Stingray Building

30m-35m:

31m71cm4mm | Apartment Building
34m60cm9mm | Kelp Factory
34m77cm8mm | Bream Building

40m+ (impossible):

43m43cm5mm | TV Station
45m45cm4mm | Windmill
47m45cm9mm | Gymnasium
51m20cm7mm | Middle School

Killer move: If you've seen the disappearance chart, you know the dairy cows will have disappeared by the time you return to the upper town. That leaves only 4 cow objects (all oxen) in the upper town: two in the cowshed on the right as you face the bream building, one roaming around the perimeter, and one roaming in the center. At some point between 5m49cm1mm (the size at which you can roll up the ox, which you DON'T want to do) and ~8m, flip the two moving oxen so they'll run away! If only you could do the same for the two in the cowshed. Anyway, I prefer to do this just before (or just after) getting palm trees off the beach full of oxen. Once you reach ~25m, you'll want to clear the upper town. If you reach ~8m and you realize you forgot to flip one or both roaming oxen, restart. Trust me.

***

I'm raising the estimate for the disappearance of the dairy cows. At least twice in the last few days, I got overconfident in the schoolyard and wound up getting one in the loop of falling items when I was well over 22m. They're definitely gone by 23m, but I'll put the estimate at 22m50cm for now. Remember that these are only estimates, because I'm not likely to do endless test runs just to post supremely precise numbers. On the other hand, the estimates for the smallest items are quite accurate.

Holy cow in 1:56!!! :brucelee

Coming soon: strategies.

I don't go down without a fight! You're ahead now (by 5 whole seconds), but don't count me out! :lol

Okay, so even though I evidently don't have the best route, here's how I think about speedrunning Taurus.

I start . . . at the end.

There are two Holy Cows. One is out in the open, strolling around the park in a predictable, circular pattern; the other hides among a swarm of trees. Guess which one I'm going for. Not only this; but you can drop down from the parking lot, which happens to be loaded with stuff that'll take you from about six meters to the requisite seven+ in no time.

This was my thinking about a year ago, and I think it's still the best way to approach the level. (I'm not sure why SloBro chose to get the other Holy Cow.) So you work backwards from: Holy Cow, palm trees in the parking lot, two cars, lots of lampposts. . . . and, obviously, How big do you have to be when you enter the parking lot? And what's the quickest way to get to THAT?

Now we go back to the beginning.

I've been thinking about the level as a race to certain diameter markers: 2m54cm for the two rows of garden plants and sunflowers (an easy boost that'll take you to 3m45cm in about ten seconds, if you grab the people nearby). Or likewise: a race to start grabbing guard rails. For the end-pieces you only have to be two meters and change, but for the other parts you need to be a bit bigger. But the level is loaded with them, they're always in a neat little line for you, and they really boost your size. There are also the rows of flower beds, which are neatly arranged in a line, and -- lo and behold -- are grabbable just as you are done with the rows of garden plants and sunflowers. Oh, and who can forget the rocks, the precious rocks. A cluster of four can be found just a stone's throw (pun intended) away from the starting point.

If we think about the upper town as four quadrants, with the starting point being in Q1, and then number them clockwise (so that the parking lot bridge is off Q3), here's briefly what I've been doing. (But again: it's not the best route, obviously.)

From the starting point, I do a quick-turn and do one complete counterclockwise circle around Q1, finishing up with all the barbells and boxes, the two people, and the line of fish. Then I shoot forward and begin a counterclockwise half-loop around Q4, through all the large ice cream cones and safes, shirts, and wedding cakes, until I reach the rows of garden plants and sunflowers (= Q3). I make a complete clockwise loop around Q3, finishing with the flower beds, then continuing back into Q4 for the remaining flower beds, signs, and people, until I grab the single rock that's off the road between Q1 and Q4. Then I quick-turn and CNR straight through all the guard rail between Q1 and Q4, then between Q1 and Q2, grabbing the other single rock, and end up at the cluster of four. I then make a half loop clockwise around Q2, grabbing one red car and a couple of other cars before entering the parking lot via the bridge. At about 2:00 the Holy Cow will be right underneath you, or just off to the right.

A better route, however, probably has you over in Q4 at 1:35 or so, where you can grab the two work vehicles. But I haven't had time to try this out.

:gba

matthew69,

It's great that you found a route that stays in the upper town and still gets you to 2:01. I've tried a route that deviates from the one below to stay in the upper town, but I could never figure out how to make it fast enough. It's also interesting that you seem to have started from scratch rather than tweaking slo_bro's route. :)

***

Old strategy: While going for diameter, I noticed things that gave me ideas for the speed run. All of my speed strategies for this level are based on slo_bro's route, by the way. It has more going for it than you might think! The first big tweak I made was to quick turn at the start instead of worrying about the line of turkeys and turning every which way. The next thing I did differently was to go right after the 2 trucks in the upper town. Then I took the massive cliff dive into the park for the cow just like I did when going for the totem pole in MAS 7! The last major thing I did was to turn right after the flowerbeds and signs to get guardrails. Then I quick turned for the rock and continued on. Later I discovered that didn't make sense, but that's how I got 2:26, 2:18, and then 2:08.

Short version of new strategy: When slo_bro goes left, go right instead. The only difference between the old and new strategies is the right turn after the flowerbeds and signs in front of the supermarket.

New strategy: At the start, skip the King's blather and quick turn. Dash between the ice cream cones and bounce off the fence. Dash again to get everything on the road including all 3 cones just past the intersection. Twitch left just after those (you can't get the cake), get all 4 shopping carts, and slow down for the 2 safes (don't turn around for the other one). You should be able to get (and stay) in front of the car. Get everything else on the road including the cake. (If you miss too many items on the way, you can't get it. Just don't get knocked into the cow pylons. You can hedge your bets by rolling just left of the cake. If you're large enough, you get it. If not, you roll harmlessly past. The cake is useful, but not essential.) Roll up the hill, turn left at the opening between flowerbeds, and turn right for 3 fish. (If you didn't get the cake, all 3 fish are essential to get the oil drums.) Turn left at the road, get all the oil drums and umbrellas, and roll down the hill. Get all 4 barber's poles, roll left for the 2 sidewalk markers, and roll forward for the umbrellas. Get the 2 barber's poles on your right (you'll knock some people around) and the 2 sidewalk markers before the ox. Quick turn and get enough people to reach 2m54cm for the garden plants.

Roll almost to the intersection, quick turn, and get the whole line of garden plants and sunflowers. (At the end, be at the lowest point of the hill without hitting the pole. You can also roll right around the pole if you're sure you won't hit the ox. You can't just keep rolling in the center of the line because you'll often hit an invisible nothing at the end. Fear the invisible nothing!) Turn left to get the other line of plants and flowers and cross the road. You should be able to beat the van that comes from the right. Turn right to get the traffic mirror, the post, and at least enough guardrails to reach 3m40cm. (Turn right before the cow vending machines.) Being much lower than 3m40cm won't allow you to get the signs and continue without some costly backtracking. Get enough people to grow, back up for the 2 flowerbeds and sign, and roll forward to get all the flowerbeds and the other sign. Roll around the pole, get the 2 deluxe fridges, and turn right at the road. Get the line of guardrails and then the next one and the rock. (Avoid the ox and be on the lookout for floating calves.) On the best runs, you can beat the cows coming from the left. (See plan B below.) Turn right for the line of posts, etc. and drop off into the pond. (Avoid a floating calf in your path or a little right, the calves below, and the signs at the edge of the cliff.)

Get the boat and cameras in the water and the guys in the ring. Roll to the line of log fences, turn right, and get them all. If you're already 5m44cm5mm, dash into the water and around the park on your right all the way to the other beach. Otherwise, get the choppers in the water while avoiding the cow and then dash. The point is to be large enough for the light truck with no backtracking. Get the truck and as many log fences as you can while avoiding the calves. Roll up the hill for 2 rocks and turn right for 2 trucks. Roll up the incline and get the line of flowerbeds on the way to the parking lot. (Around this time, some cars and maybe the ox will be in your path. Avoid the ox. If you flip him, he may land in your path and send you to restartland. Also avoid any cars except red ones before getting the 2 trucks because they'll just knock you around.) Go up the narrow bridge to the parking lot, get the red car while avoiding the cows, and roll up the 4 palm trees nearest to the car. (If you're not quite 6m44cm4mm for the palm trees, you can bump the building for a few walls to get there.) The Holy cow will be just under you at around 2:00. Facing the park below, drop in and try to avoid the 4 cow-men. Flip the cow and roll it up!

Plan B: If the cows are already there right after the guardrails and rock, wait for them to pass. Roll forward and down the small hill to get 4 rocks. Roll off the edge and dash up the hill for the barriers while avoiding falling cow items and huge rocks. You must be 5m3cm8mm to roll up the barriers. Curve right as you fly off the ramp and roll to the pond while avoiding all the cows in the water. Get the line of log fences and pick up the strategy from there. This may even be faster if done properly, and you can also do it by rolling in front of the cows if you beat them to the intersection. Restart if you're not large enough for the barriers.

Notes:

- If you're aiming for under 2:00, restart if you: 1) don't get and stay in front of the car, 2) don't beat the van, 3) don't beat the cows, 4) aren't large enough for the truck by the time you get to the beach.

- FYI: I got 1:57 and then 1:56 by following the main route. Plan B is fine, but it hasn't gotten me any sub-2:00 times.

- I've tried to find a route that stays in the upper town to avoid that long dash around the park. I haven't found a way to make it faster, though. Some ideas: Use the rocks from plan B, quick turn, and reenter the upper town. Get nearby log fences, posts, or whatever to reach 5m44cm5mm. Then...I don't know. You could get the truck on the beach and then pick up the strategy. You could get the 2 trucks, the car next to the monster truck, and then pick up the strategy. The main problem is momentum. None of that winds up any faster (or even as fast) because the main route is mostly on one smooth track.

688 objects!!! :brucelee

I forgot to include a key item in the speed run strategy: the deluxe fridges just after the signs and flowerbeds in front of the supermarket. I've added it to the previous post. They're useful for being large enough to get the rock just past the ox in the center of town.

***

matthew69,

Nice job getting the Holy cow in 1:50! :applause

How did you do it? :)

I finally had time to play a bit, and experiment with variations on my route. I tried your route . . . once :lol and decided against it. I just couldn't make it happen -- leaving the upper town and having to dash all the way back. So I reconfigured the second minute of my run so I'd end up over by the hill with the two rocks (Q4) at 1:30-1:35 (my hunch was right).

My start is identical, all the way to the garden plants and sunflowers. Only now I don't get the people on the second half; I just get the plants and flowers. On a good run, I've finished this and I've taken a right up the hill for the barrels before the singing starts. I'm approximately 3m25cm at this point. Then you either get guard rails or the fish and televisions. Either way, before the hill, you turn around to get the line of flowerbeds around the building, then head down to the barber poles and cross the street for guard rails before turning left. You have to contend with approaching cars, floating cows, and the line of larger cows that races toward you at some point. But if you time it right, you'll have a clear line all the way to the end, at which point you can swerve left around the telephone pole before heading right to grab the four rocks. Quick-turn, grab some fence, guard rails, single rock, and all the way around to the area with the large signs, flower beds, people, guard rails, two rocks on the hill, the two work vehicles, and a red (clockwise) car that shows up ahead of the line of cows at about 1:35. After the car, you're about 6m25cm, at which point you can go to the parking lot for both cars. Or you can wait for a (clockwise) sedan, and bounce it onto the bridge, grabbing it as you head toward just the one red car.

Beware the invisible nothing! And beware the cow umbrella in plain sight!

ThumbsOfSteel: Finally got a chance to try out your ALAP Taurus route, and -- oh man!! This is a great discovery in the game. Really amazing. It took me a while to get used to the 23-27.5 window, when you're unable to maneuver your katamari normally. L1 is helpful; I also found that R1 is particularly helpful in certain spots.

The game froze up for me several times when I was growing at 25 meters. I think you're right about the slow-down being caused by the PS2 processor's inability to keep up. Can KD be played on a PS3 system? Would that affect or nullify the slow-down?

I did a few things differently than you. I find that getting the third advertising balloon saves time, because you don't have to bother with the prefab house (yet). I suppose your warning against getting it was because of the ox below. But if you're on the roof and come sideways from the right, you can grab it without disturbing the ox. It's the random dairy cow that's more of a concern. Also, after getting the boiler room and smokestack, I go directly to the cowsheds. You can save 10-15 seconds if you leave the fishing boat for later. I use R1 to see the cows, then grab the other palm trees and the car and drop down. You're practically on top of them when you drop. Or you can drop down onto the house in the park that's right below the boiler room, then pivot to the side back into the water.

I also don't bother going into the park after getting the two cowsheds. Instead, I come right up to the park wall and grab the house that's near those two palm trees (rolling them up at the same time). Then I follow the shoreline to grab the other cluster of palm trees, most of the fence, and the wrestling ring. This does two things. It saves precious time, and it makes it so much easier to ascend the hill and start getting the buildings. At this point, the slow-down is in full force. So I use gravity. After getting to about 19 meters, I leave some buildings and go down the hill for the huge trees around the cave. Then I clear the park, and turn around for the lighthouse, the single palm tree on the island, and the other huge trees around the pond on the water's edge. I'm very mindful of my size at this point, and I may leave the one huge tree that's up where the greenhouse used to be, because I don't want to size up to 23 meters just yet. If I do, then ascending the hill is so much more precarious, because of that cow umbrella. But if I stay just under 23 meters, I can easily maneuver into town, and then into the park. Also, you don't have to think about the cow vending machines, if you're 22.9 meters when you approach the remaining buildings. And you don't have to worry about any cows in the loop of falling items.

My goal was to hit 27.5 and still have two to three minutes left. After all the hard work, you don't want the clock running out on you.

matthew69,

:applause

Since you beat my diameter, I may as well give a few more details about my route.

I designed the route to address the following challenges: 1) Be large enough for cow-man to have disappeared by the time you enter the lower town. 2) Be large enough for the dairy cows to disappear just after entering the schoolyard. 3) Be just the right size after the schoolyard to get the pachinko parlor.

After the pachinko parlor, aim (L1) for the huge trees near the park and reach 25m. Return to the upper town and get large buildings (parking garage, marlin building, supermarket, silos) to reach 27m50cm. Roll into the water for the smokestacks at the kelp factory, the lighthouse, remaining items in the park, and remaining palm trees. Get the stingray building and carefully return to the parking lot for the bathhouse and remaining items (cars, palm trees). Climb the TV station for the radio tower (or dash at it from the parking lot; risky!). Roll to the ranch and carefully get all the huge trees while avoiding the Holy cow. Get the apartment buildings, the bream building, and the kelp factory. Get all remaining items while leaving the cowshed with the oxen inside for last. Get it and then go for one of the Holy cows if you manage to avoid the oxen inside. That's about it.

I realize I should probably get the huge trees at the ranch earlier and try to leave the smokestacks until I can get the kelp factory along with them.

One of the biggest challenges for me was getting the last cowshed at the very end. For my original diameter in this topic, I got it and then rolled up the Holy cow at the ranch. It's an extremely delicate maneuver due to the 2 oxen inside and the huge size of your katamari at that point. The diameters that came after that ended with oxen rather than Holy cows.

I haven't figured out how to get the school clock tower. I think I got it for 37m+, but I'm not sure. I tried bumping the school at around 20m. I tried going back for it near the end. No luck. :shrug

I was shocked to get over 37m because usually the game appears to set limits just under, rather than over, the nearest such plateau. For example, the highest known diameter for MAS 1 is 19cm7mm, and surely you can't get over 20cm.

In addition to the technical issues regarding the slowdown, it seems like the developers just goofed on this level. Still, none of this weirdness would have been there for me to find in 2008 if the level worked properly.

In the topic "Taurus, my favourite stage..." from 2006 in this forum, slo_bro speculates that 30m+ could be possible on this level if not for the slowdown. (I found that topic only after getting to 37m+ when I was looking for Silent Thunder's MAS 1 strategy.) There were so many people on here back then! And they were all so interested in KD even after the release of WLK! I appreciate that you, Silent Thunder, and others have posted in my various topics, but I do wish there were more people. What I really wish is that I had been here a year or two ago. *sigh*

I forgot to report on the game freezing up. It happened to me a few times as well. I can't recall my game ever freezing up on any other level, so add that to the long list of this level's glitches.

About the diameter, I figured 37m10cm was possible. I just got tired of winding up with the ox at the end while going for the last cowshed. I wonder if that's the only difference between your score and mine. Did you get the Holy cow at the end?

Using my route, I have 5 full minutes left before the park and 2-3 after 27m50cm. The school clock tower and the last cowshed always get me, though.

Your post contains some great ideas for saving time before the schoolyard. :)

Your route is very smart, and well conceived. I wish you were taping/posting your runs, because people would be interested to see this. I was taping my 37m10cm run, but it reached the end of the tape halfway!

Because of the gaps in your post, I had to figure out my own way, and I made an assumption about the clock tower. I didn't realize I was solving a problem in the process! After you clear the huge trees in the schoolyard, you say, "return to the upper town." Well, I did the same thing. I just took the most direct route -- and rolled up the clock tower in the process :) I would roll over the building, then head for the silos. I don't think I could get to the parking garage from my angle, but I could get the supermarket. Sometimes this would get me to 27.5. If not, I'd L1 up the hill to spot the Holy Cow. If I saw nothing then I could grab a few trees and look again. If I saw her over to one side, then I could usually hit 27.5 by clearing the opposite side. Then I'd get the rest of the trees.

I didn't even know if that other cowshed could be gotten! For my 37m10cm4mm, yes, I got the Holy Cow up at the ranch. That's always the goal in my mind.

OHMYGOD. You guys... are amazing.

Gosh, now I realize... wow I suck.

Anyway, my best time for Holy Cow is 8:04. :frusty I only started playing KD in mid-July, give me a break here. :rolleyes

So, I thought that a 37m katamari in make Taurus was virtually impossible. Sloobro pretty much proved that with his 18+ video. How did you guys manage to move the katamari???

Anyway, congratulations, you guys. :applause :thumbsup

SloBro's video showed that there's severe slowdown at 16-18m. At that point everyone made the assumption that the slowdown would continue. Except ThumbsOfSteel. Or at least he discovered that it comes and goes, and then diminishes once you reach about 21 meters. You might read the previous posts to get some tips for bringing down your time. You'll need to be about 15-16 meters five minutes in to the level to get up into the 20s and 30s.

Yeah. I did some SERIOUS practice. :cool

matthew69,

Thanks for the kind comments on my route. :D

I should add a few more things. I think you know this already, but for others: You can get all but 3 huge trees off the invisible wall in the schoolyard. There's one high up on a ledge and 2 others to the left and further back. At least, I don't think you can get those. Whether you're playing for diameter or not, be careful on the beach with all the oxen while gathering palm trees. If you touch one that's stopped, you'll end the level instead of harmlessly flipping it and having it run away.

The biggest problem with my route is the katamari-smashing climb into the park just after the first 2 cowsheds. I think I'll enjoy this level more once I'm able to leave that part out!

I think I finally know what happened for each of my scores in this topic. For what it's worth:

36m92cm4mm - I got everything but the radio tower and school clock tower. Then I rolled up the Holy cow.

36m95cm - I got the radio tower, but not the clock tower or the last cowshed. I think I got the ox before I could get the cowshed. The radio tower and ox more or less cancelled out the cowshed and Holy cow from the other run.

37m8cm5mm - I got the radio tower and clock tower, but not the last cowshed. I ended up with an ox (as usual).

This is only speculation. Why? Because unlike the MAS levels, the cow and bear levels end in such a way that it's tough to know what you got. When the MAS levels end, you can see if the last item you tried for is there just after the royal rainbow. If it isn't, you got it. The cow and bear levels end with a spin and then a fade to black, but you never get to see if that last item is there or not. So you have to guess.

***

FoominFan,

You don't suck. You just need some more practice if you want to see all of what this game has to offer. Don't get discouraged. It's a pretty tough game that's not very forgiving of crashes and such.

Like matthew69 said, read previous posts in this topic if you want to know how to get well over 18m. The key is being near a large group of objects once the worst of the slowdown hits. I did it the hard way: I rolled up the hill from the little pond into the lower town. I think matthew69's way might be better.

This topic also contains information on how to get the Holy cow quickly, and slo_bro's 3:18 video is another good starting point.

Speak up if you have any more questions, and thanks for the compliments. :D

It's really hard avoiding calves, cow vending machines, and (small for an 8m katamari) dairy cows. I can't believe how many times I've gotten the Holy Cow with all of the obstacles. :)

Training is definitely key to this game, so I shouldn't have said that I suck. (Heck, I'm in some top positions in the KD Hall of Fame! :rolleyes )

Just something I do for fun: When you're down on the beach with all the ox and you're about 5m50cm, speed through them all and they go flying! :woot (You'll never see an ox spinning on it's head in your life, so why not see it on KD? :shrug)

It's so fun getting your katamari from 2m50cm to 3m30cm going down those lines of sunflowers and plants on the side of the road! It's one of those things I look forward to doing on this level. :heh

matthew69,

Objects: Congratulations on your new record. :applause

Diameter: Have you found your method for getting the school clock tower to be reliable? I've made a few unsuccessful attempts since your post about it. As you face the school from the schoolyard, it's a tight squeeze between the ox on your left and a wall that sticks out on your right. Maybe I'm not doing it right. Is there some trick to it? Also, about what size are you when you roll it up? :)

I still have no idea how I got it that one time. I only suspect I did because I remember being over 37m before going after the last cowshed and getting an ox instead. :frusty

New Holy Cow time: 6:50! Woohoo! :heh

Thumbs, I'm curious about your route for objects in Taurus. I have tried every conceivable strategy, so I think I'm pretty familiar with what works and what doesn't! Briefly, for what it's worth, I make a pretty substantial run through the upper town, clearing it of almost everything in the road, and some stuff off the road, and all the pineapples and logs too. Then it's into the lower town. I sacrifice getting the chickens and some of the beach balls nearby. And sometimes the small ramen noodles disappear, maybe the sea anemones. But you're going to lose items -- you just just have to choose which ones, right? I'm wondering if you ever tried going into the park to get the lamposts, blue fences, ladders, planters, etc. It's challenging; but the 30+ items in there are tantalizing! I've tried routes that go for bigger items -- even the cherry trees -- and I've gottten over 625 doing it -- but I don't think BIG is the way to go (though the huge trees are a temptation).

I think the difference between our routes might make it more challenging for you to get the clock tower. Specifically, I'm smaller. I'm under 27.5 when I roll over the building. Yes, I've found it to be reliable. The ox isn't a problem. You have to use the VIEW feature, but it's not a big deal.

I got to 9m, so all the calves disappeared, and so I got the Holy Cow in the clump of trees easily (because there are calves wandering around in the trees with the Holy Cow) in... 6:09! :woot Yaaaaay... :D

Also, I'm curious how you guys get so many objects while you're still small. My record is 347, and I don't think that is that great since there are so many smaller objects around, on, and to the side of all the roads. :shrug

FoominFan,

Isn't it fun to try for diameter on this level? :) Yes, the calves disappear at around 8m60cm. This level is full of glitches, however, so watch out anyway until you're over 9m. You'll really enjoy things once you can get to around 16m, because the cow-men disappear! The cow pylons and those annoying signs disappear soon after 10m.

For objects, I get a lot of items in the lower town also. Try to avoid getting most of the items you would for diameter (garden plants, guardrails, etc.) until later so you can stay small and get a lot of items before they disappear. :thumbsup

Also see my reply to matthew69 for some route help. :)

***

matthew69,

Objects: I couldn't quite remember what I did for 688, so I gave it another shot. I get most of the items in the upper town, but I leave the guardrails, sunflowers, and garden plants alone so I can stay small. A bit before 3m, I drop down to the pond and head straight for the farm with the single cow. I get all the vegetables without having to watch for that cow since I'm too small to roll it up. I drop down for the items around the pond and over by the bear-man. I enter the lower town and get most of what's there. I avoid the area with the floating calves and the one over by the other farm. I climb up where the 4 rocks are and return to the upper town. Now I get the guardrails, flowerbeds, garden plants, etc. Then I continue my diameter route until time is almost up and get a cow.

The most fiendishly difficult thing about this level and Ursa is finding a cow/bear item at the last minute! It's a big waste if you get one too soon, but it's a complete waste if you can't find one. Just now I got 717 objects. At the very end, I got the huge trees near the park and the ones in the schoolyard. Then I climbed over the school and dashed for the ones at the ranch while hoping to hit the Holy cow. But I missed! I somehow avoided falling off the cliff onto the side of the ramp with nothing, and instead I managed to get an ox at the beach with one second left! :eek

That's interesting about the items in the park. I took a spin around the park after getting the huge trees nearby, but I know a lot of smaller items had disappeared by then. Playing for objects is interesting in general. You have to decide which ones to sacrifice, because you can't get them all (at least not in the large levels). I could get items in the park early, but the time spent avoiding cow-men and entering/exiting the park might cancel out the benefits. Had I gotten them I probably wouldn't have had time for huge trees. Anyway, going to the park early is probably a good strategy if you have the time.

Diameter: That's a great method for getting the school clock tower, and I understand it just fine. I just haven't been able to do it, and I'm not sure why. My route has me just over 20m as I enter the schoolyard. Then I bump the school for the clock pedestal and (lately) try for the clock tower. Nope. Maybe I'm not large enough. There are such items in other levels where you have to be within a certain range or you're out of luck. (The novelty plate in MAS 2 comes to mind.)

It's not a huge deal. I'll just have to keep at it.

***

When I first tried going for objects on this level, I knew I would have to take on the lower town. My diameter route avoids it until most of the cow items are gone, and my speed route avoids it entirely. I had to overcome my fear of the lower town! It's not so scary once you know where the cow items are and how they move. There's the cow-man leading a parade of calves, the cow-man standing behind the red car, the floating calves, the cow vending machines, a few roaming calves here and there, and the calf standing in front of the doghouse. Don't fear the lower town!

Fear the invisible nothing instead. :wtf

ThumbsOfSteel,

Yes yes yes! Love going for diameter on this level! More fun than any other. :yes

And yes, lots of glitches. Lots of times when I hit the Holy Cow to turn it over, it flashes and then disappears, so I just get more gigantic and then get an ox or something. Quite maddening to tell you the truth. :eek But diameter is as fun as getting The Cow of Holy-ness. :D

For objects, I'll just follow what you said and hope that I won't grab a stinkin' calf while doing so. :wtf

FoominFan,

The Holy cow...disappears? :eek

Something like that has happened to me. When I used to get the one in the woods with all the calves, I often wouldn't be able to find it after it flipped. Theories: 1) It's tough to see anything in those woods, so maybe it just runs away while I'm looking for it. 2) Maybe it flips off the cliff and lands far below. Then it runs away.

Anyway, none of that is a problem if you get the Holy cow in the park. Just get large enough however you like and roll off the parking lot into the park. It's not perfect, though. That Holy cow is surrounded by 4 cow-men, and the parking lot has 4 dairy cows in it to make things a bit tougher. Still, it's easier to see what's going on than it is with the one in the woods.

Or have you had the Holy cow in the park disappear also?

ThumbsOfSteel,

I got the one in the woods after much chasing the spinning behemoth down the hill below when I was 9m50cm. :lol So... yeah.

PLAN OF ACTION: I think I need to achieve 9m to get the HC now just to avoid the stupid calves. (And to avoid disappearance.)

So, it's happened to you?!? :dead :( Wow. I thought I was the one having all the trouble. I think your theories are right, though. But for me, I think my game or PS2 is possessed or something. I've seen the HC spin toward me when it emerged from the woods (when I bumped in to it, of course). And it flashes. And it disappears. I'll just 'execute my ultimate plan of ultimate action' from now on. :lol :D :thumbsup

I've never gotten the one in the park though. Need to try that. :heh :D

FoominFan,

Or maybe the one in the woods does disappear! That would be theory #3. Maybe it has disappeared on me after all, but I don't think I've ever had a problem with the one in the park.

***

matthew69,

Diameter: Okay, so maybe I don't understand how to get the school clock tower! I've played several more times, and I haven't gotten it once. It may be that we're talking about 2 different items: the clock pedestal and the school clock tower. The pedestal is on top of the school. That one's easy to get. You can get it by climbing the school from the upper town. My method is to gently bump the school when I'm in the schoolyard getting huge trees. The clock tower is embedded in the front of the school building. I have no idea how to get it. If we've been talking about 2 separate items all along, that certainly explains my frustration in trying to get the clock tower. No worries either way.

A new puzzle arises, however: What did I get for 37m8cm5mm, and what did you get for 37m10cm4mm?

For 37m9cm4mm (which I got just now), I'm sure I got the clock pedestal and I didn't get the school clock tower. At the very end, I believe I managed to get the evil cowshed just before winding up with an ox. I believe I heard 2 clicks as I got the ox, and I think the first was the cowshed. As I've said previously, I can't be sure.

For 37m8cm5mm, now I'm not sure what I got. Now I think I got the last cowshed, but not the clock tower. Then I managed to get some other small item(s) (or just not lose as many due to crashing) on the 37m9cm4mm run to give me the extra 9mm. I got an ox both times.

Here's where it gets strange: Did you get 37m10cm4mm without the clock tower or the last cowshed? You've said you didn't get the last cowshed, so I reasoned you must have gotten the clock tower. I've assumed that all you were missing was the last cowshed, and all I was missing was the clock tower. Now I'm baffled. If you didn't get either one, then what in the world could you have rolled up? Getting the Holy cow at the end is nice, and I try to do that also. But it can't make a difference of several cm over getting an ox, can it?

:shrug

You've always been very careful about item names, sizes, locations, etc. So I'm sorry -- I thought we were only talking about the clock pedestal. The clock tower, on the other hand, I haven't gone after deliberately! Maybe I somehow got it in my run. Maybe since I'm smaller when I get to the school playground, I've been able to snag it. Naturally that would be my strategy if I were trying to get it -- go after it as soon as you reach the minimum size. But then you've probably already tried that. You know, some items that are grabbable in one level are visible but disabled in another. It could be that that is the case here.

No, the Holy Cow, as you know, doesn't add THAT much in terms of size. I really have no explanation about how I got that diameter -- except that I probably played the level 50 times! You're more familiar with this level than anyone. Could it be that I got more stuff when I was in the 5m-15m range? I did some experiments with this when I was playing it. I changed my route to include the row of four or five planters that are nearest the lower town, as well as the photo booth. I also experimented with going into the lower town to get ALL the bolders, including those by the cave. Maybe it all adds up. Lastly, there have been discussions over the years about the order in which items are picked up. This phenomenon is more evident in certain levels. Maybe Taurus is one of them? :shrug

matthew69,

That's interesting about the order in which items are rolled up being important. I don't think that's the case, which probably means...it is the case! :heh

If it is true, then that means diameters are random to some degree. Believe it or not, even I don't have the patience to go through millions of combinations to see which is best.

I haven't been getting the flowerbeds nearest the lower town or the ones nearest the parking lot (to avoid the cow vending machine). I have been getting the rocks near the cave. I get those just after dropping from the upper town to the pond, and I restart if it takes too long for the cows to get out of the way. Getting the rocks becomes difficult or impossible later.

I've been using your method (or something like it) of skipping the park and getting the huge trees around it as soon as possible. Then I clear the rest of the lower town and enter the schoolyard. The rest is mostly unchanged. Avoiding the park for too long often causes me to miss the small trees, flowerbeds, etc. due to disappearance.

Anyway, I'm writing off the school clock tower for now and concentrating on smaller items. Also, I think I sometimes forget to go back for the school gate and other items that are a bit tougher to see at 30m+. I suppose I should try to get more (or all) of the log fences before they disappear, but being absolutely thorough in the upper town at the beginning may not leave enough time at the end.

Anyway, I'll keep at it. :)

Still having trouble with the Cow of Holyness in the woods.

I hear it flipping over, but... I can never find it. :mad

Need to try the one in the park. :heh