Inspired by a Garlyle's topic, I've decided to open this one, ONLY for discussing about any possible strategy to get the katamari as big as possible in ALAP5 stage.

I suggest you to tape your routes. That would be the greatest explanation of a route. A lot of times luck is the key.
I'd be curious to know roll yr own and Garlyle route. Maybe we can beat the 3640's barrier.

:)

I'll offer my best ideas. Maybe none of these will help, maybe a combination, I really don't know ...

- Once you reach a certain diameter (I don't know exactly what diameter) change gears and start picking up the tiny little things that will disappear soon if you don't get them. (that one works in KD)

- Once you reach 2600m, try your darnedest to avoid grabbing the huge clouds. Grab as much smaller stuff as you can before getting the clouds.

- Grab the King and Queen as early as you possibly can. (that one works in M&MK)

- Grab the King and Queen as late as you possibly can.









...

I've been trying this a few times today. Success :)



What I did that time was:

I rolled to 1000m as quickly as possible. Then I spent several minutes avoiding big stuff and trying to pick up the smallest islands and the smallest stuff off the land masses. Once I was 1500m I started allowing myself to grab big stuff again, but kept grabbing tiny stuff whenever possible. I didn't specifically try to get the huge clouds or King or Queen early or late.

But I am guessing that more than 50% of the reason for my diameter was luck. I'm not saying it's all based on luck, I'm just saying that I probably still don't know all the details of how to make the katamari really big, and there is still a lot of room for discussion in this thread :devil

Wow slo, that's a great point! :)

I want to suggest also another thing: it would be better if you have collected all the cousins, so you find them all in the stage and they can mean some mm more.

You're right, I didn't think of that. I have no idea exactly how many mm total the cousins are worth but I bet they're worth something.

LOL, I just realized I said something ridiculous in my last post :lol I said I rolled to 1000m "as quickly as possible." Well, I'm talking to the likes of Lo7 and Matthew69, both of whom have completed the stage in under 5 minutes. In the picture you can tell it took me 6:31.

Guess I should have said "I rolled to 1000m as quickly as I know how..."

Sorry, just had to poke fun at myself even though it's off-topic.

I think when I did the level today, I got most of the cousins that appeared in it (out of the ones where the King says something about them, I only got Shikao and Drooby). Getting the cousins definitely will increase the katamari's size by a couple centimeters (for the almost Drooby-sized ones).

My route? Err... lemme think.

1-3m: Start near a pile of boxes. Roll up a couple, turn left, roll up the hill and collect the fencing there; then turn around and go over the bridge and grab stuff there. You'll reach 1.5m pretty quick. Roll around the city to get to 3m

3-12m: Start off by rolling up all the students in the playground area; then roll into the pool, down the river, and collect the fencing and people. Roll nearby there, start to pick up trees (especially lion statues) and cars; after, near the mansion on the hill, start grabbing trees for maximum potential. As you near it, roll back towards the starting city and roll it up.

12-60m: Finish rolling up the starting city, turn around, and roll up some buildings in the second town area; continue on to 'France' and get a crapload. Continue collecting cities, mainly. You should probably hit 60m in the Japanese/Chinese-themed area.

60-300m: Start off by heading towards where the 300m border was; roll up the city before it and a bunch of stuff nearby. Once you've rolled up a bunch, roll up and over the bridge. Collect the small city, head around, and onto the Desert Area. Roll up some pyramids and the sphynxes, then transfer onto the next continent nearby; roll up stuff there (especially the forests) and you should be nearing 300. Grab nearby goods.

Finale: Grab the desert (you will be able to fully uproot it). Next, head over to the first continent and grab a crapload there; after that, turn and try to find the multi-volcano island and roll it up for another large boost. Then its onto little islands to pick up and, at about 1500m, start rolling up the massive icebergs. And then you don't have many restrictions to stuff yet; just keep going and look for 'Huge tracts of land!' (Kudos to anyone who gets that!). And good luck!

That about covers my route. I hit the 500m mark at approximately 11 minutes, so...

Not only should you unlock all the cousins first, but you should play as one that you don't typically roll up during your run. I think the most essential strategy is to leave the huge clouds until the absolute end as slo bro suggested, but that's easier said than done.

Hmm... I just started near the farm. In fact, I pretty much followed the video here. I'll give that route you mentioned a try a little later.

I had success too. :D

3635m75cm7mm
http://www.cyberscore.net/chart-17993.php

Actually I'm thinking that is not only luck. Picking up the objects in a certain moment is the key. I played as slo, but getting 500m (not 1000) as quickly as possible and then starting rolling up small stuff. Then, at 1680m I picked up the giant tornado. At 2000meters I picked up the icebergs and then all the clouds. At 2900 picked up the Queen and at 1150m (to be exact) the King. :)

Good luck!

Yeah, I don't think it's luck at all to be honest. But all I know for sure is that I don't know exactly how to do it. I have played the stage a lot today, and well over half the time I end up with less than 3602m. Any ideas why that might be? It could be what I thought, just that for no good reason two clouds do not appear, but that's probably not it. Maybe I knock something big over and never pick it up? Maybe it matters which position the King is in when you pick him up (walking or flying)? I am very curious to hear whether other people frequently end up with 3600-3602 meters, or if it's just something I'm doing wrong.



But in one of the few attempts when I did reach 3630m ...



I think we're onto something about picking up small stuff once you're 500-1000 meters. This time I made a lap around the outside of the first mass of islands picking up tiny islands once I was 500m. I don't know if that helped or not. I picked up the King and Queen both quickly after I became able to do so. I don't know if it matters but the King was flying not walking when I got him.

But a greater success than just getting 3636m once would be if we could actually learn how to end up that big. I still don't know.

Wow, slo!
You have broken 3636's barrier. I do think it is not ONLY luck. You must pick up all the little stuf you find. Just a thing: how many total objects did you roll up?

edit: slo, I do believe you must tape your attempts. It is the best way to understand how this level works. :)

Seems really it is not only luck... :lol

3636m14cm7mm :D

Just following the same instructions.
I don't remember if I picked up the king flying or walking.

Edit: I played as The Prince, but the best would be using Shikao, as he's the smallest one. :thumbsup

I think it may be that you are growing TOO fast =/ I can get 3620 atleast consistently, but my meteors are VERY slow, (9 minute range). Watching a few videos of the speedruns i think you guys are fast enough that you could start slowing down before you pick up egypt area (was that 300m or so?) there are still tiny islands around and about before you take egypt to boost the score

or maybe its beginner's luck for me ^_^;;

*edit* by having slow meteors it means im probably spending more time picking up large ammounts of small things while i make my way around

...You call that slow?

Here's maybe a hint. My meteor time for that run? 11 minutes and something, and yet I got higher than any of you in size.

Maybe that's just it... =3

I think that's only luck. No matter what time do you take to get the goal, I suppose.

i trust in the game of katamari enough to not believe its luck :(

i was just assuming that people with fast meteors pick up the largest items quickly to get to that time. nubs like me roll around and pick up plenty of tiny things that you pwners would have missed :P

The thing is that once you reach 500m you still have a lot of growing to do, so I would assume that picking up smaller objects up until that point is not nearly as essential as picking up small objects before the zoom outs between 500 and 3600 meters. In fact, the last one or two frame adjustments are probably the only ones worth focusing on because they eliminate the largest objects that don't last until the bitter end. Then again, I set my record with a 9 minute meteor and have since dropped my time to 6:25 or so without improving my diameter, so what do I know?

I would guess that the peak we could reach by doing the things we've been doing (grabbing smaller objects beginning at XX meters, picking up the King and Queen early, etc) would be between 3636 and 3638 meters. Over 3640 meters would require something very different to happen. I don't know what it would require. It may be something we can learn and reproduce whenever we want to, or it may just be extreme luck.

I think we've done a pretty good job learning to break 3636m, as two of us have done it. But we still have no clue how to break 3640m. Who knows, maybe it does require a meteor time of over 10 minutes? It is certainly possible, somehow.

...

So no one else frequently ends up between 3600m and 3602m? :heh In that case I am clearly doing something wrong, because when I tried this 10-15 times in a 2-day period, well over half my tries ended between 3600m and 3602m.


(btw I don't have a new record to report this time, lol. I would guess that Lo7's will hold up for a long time, unless we figure out how to break 3640.)

I finished a lot of time at 3602 meters.
I think that is a matter of picking up the king in the right way.
There are sometimes he adds over 100 meters, while sometimes he adds only 50meters. Who knows, maybe you have to pick up the King walking or flying...

Last time I did the level, when I rolled him up, he added about 109 meters. I always get him when he's flying. Maybe I should try it again and see if I get the same.

I couldn't sit by idly and watch people run up these huge diameters, so I did a little math and here's what I've come up with:

Items add less diameter to your katamari as you build. At 3151.938 m i got a jumbo cloud that brought me up 30.257 m. By 3288.556 the jumbo cloud added only 22 m. At 3571.889 m I finally rolled up the king (knocked him over first) and I only grew 27.5 meters, less than a jumbo cloud gave me at 3151!

Of course this means that had I rolled up the king as early as possible, the jumbo clouds would have immediately been worth less, however I think the proportions favor the larger object, such that the best strategy would be to roll up the queen as quickly as possible (this can be done earlier than king, correct?) then get the king, then finish up with the jumbo clouds.

The only problem with this strategy is that the generally accepted theory has been to get the smallest objects possible as soon as you hit a certain diameter, perhaps 500 or 1000m, and this seems to work better than immediately grabbing the big gainers i.e. the volcanoes then icebergs. My guess would be to go for small stuff as much as possible until you can roll up the gigantic whale, squid, queen, and king, in that order, then sweep for jumbo clouds and last minute remnants.

It would be most useful if Garlyle could film his run and post it, but I hope this helps for now.

It's looking like it would be useful to know exactly how early you can roll up the King and Queen. The Queen can be knocked over at somewhere between 2700 and 2780m, and the King can at somewhere between 3050 and 3150. Maybe we can determine more accurate numbers, since it is looking very possible that rolling them up as early as possible is a good idea.

:eek I finally noticed Garlyle's record on the scoreboard; wow, it's not 3640 but it's still quite something. I'm going to give this some more tries tonight, but I don't think there is any chance I'll match Garlyle's.

edit: Woops, I misread the scoreboard, looks like Lo7's record of just over 3636 is still the highest.

I usually roll up the King at 3154 meters. Don't ask me why. :lol

edit: seems there is a mistake in the scoreboard. Garlyle is the first on ALAP5 diameter, but he did 3538 meters. :lol

I had rolled up the Queen at exactly 3220m91cm2mm, bringing the total up to 3265m28cm0mm. Right after, I knocked over the King at 3265m67cm3mm (I rolled up something else in the process). I got over to him at 3270m20m3mm, which then adds to the total, giving the size at the time 3379m49cm3mm. And the final 3.5 minutes just had me rolling up most of what was left.

I really gotta get back into this game.

Now that I've gotten the King, I'm going to try for both him and the Queen on my next run again, see if things can change... =3 Who knows; maybe it was just a bit of extreme luck or something, but...

Just tried again for the first time with this new strategy and already broke my old record, albeit by 2 cm. Hopefully i'll break 3636m sometime soon. I couldn't find the whale at a crucial moment and was a little late on the octopus, so a better executed run should help a lot

I think the Queen will appear near where you rolled up the King. At least that's what I've heard.

The queen does.

However, the Queen will -not- appear the first time you play the stage; until you successfully roll up the King once, the Queen will not show up in the stage.

Ive had a belief that katamari still has very simplistic systems, including how score was added up. Since damacy ive believed that it doesnt matter what order you get things in, as long as you get them you will end up with the same diameter. For example, say i want to roll up a orange peel, a clothsline, and a cherry. It doesnt matter if i roll up the orange peel or the cherry first. As long as i get all 3 in any order ill end up with the same diameter. Then again this has just been my assumption... does anyone know if this has been proven wrong?

If this is true, then the only thing to worry about is things dissapearing... be it from growing too large or from king/queen running off

it definitely matters what order you obtain items in, i wrote down the changes for several jumbo cloud pick ups in a row and the value added consistently dropped. Also, my diameter has gotten better each time ive played since figuring this out by getting the major large objects as soon as possible.

Back to another question that nobody has yet to answer, the King is definitely larger when flying then walking, probably because of the additional rainbow he is vomiting out in frount of him. This means you must be bigger to knock him over, however once he is knocked over the rainbow disappears, so he may return to the same size as he was walking and not add any extra meters. If someone could measure the value of rolling up the king flying and walking at similar diameters we could see if one added significantly more diameter than the other.

ack. i fail then... wait actually

well of course the values of the jumbo clouds are going to drop with each picking up. the diameter (however katamari calculates it) gets bigger. bigger diameter = bigger surface area = needs more of original object to gain same diameter increase

Well, it's kind of interesting; got a good 3580m last night, or something. The scary part is that there was a -lot- left over when I finished...

Hmm........

Garlyle, I know that maybe could be difficult, but try to charge and roll when you can to get the goal quickly. You will have more time left and you should also be able to finish off all the objects in the scenario.

Try to take a look at Matthew's videos. ;)

That's the thing; I've only begun recently to use the dashes. I find I lose control and miss a lot of stuff when I'm dashing around; but I've taken to doing it once in a while. We'll see... I've got to finish off Wild Arms 3 first, here, though; heck, right now, my PS2 is on but my TV is off, during part 2 of the 11-form final battle (O-o;;)

When the katamari gets real large (over 1000m or so), dashes get harder to get at max speed. You need to alternate the sticks a bit faster than you normally would in order to get a faster dash. Even though this might be common knowledge to most of you, I just thought I'd bring it up for people that had no idea about it.

I've been trying this some more.

I have determined 100% for certain that grabbing the Flying King is better than catching him while he's walking. By getting the King while he's flying each time I never end up below 3630m. Get him while he's walking, and the best you can do is 3600-3603 or so.

Now, using our methods (spend time collecting small items when 500-1500m, grab the King and Queen and maybe giant octopus as soon as possible), I consistently end up over 3635m. Usually I am only a little bit over 3635m though, so I still have a lot to learn.

The giant whale adds so little to final diameter that I doubt it helps much at all to pick him up when as small as possible. Of course you want to pick him up, but I don't think it matters whether you get him when you're 2500m or 3600m. The giant octopus on the other hand is worth more than a gigantic cloud so he might be worth getting early. I have not been able to determine what is a good time for grabbing the octopus; grabbing him early does not seem to help much but maybe it helps, I don't know.

The Queen can be picked up at just about exactly 3730m. I don't know the exact size for picking up the King or the octopus.

I sure hope that's not true or I'm never getting her, although i assume you meant 2730 :smirk
Anyways I too have had consistent results over 3635 using this method but have yet to get to 3636. Part of me thinks I have just improved at picking up the small stuff since I adopted this theory and maybe waiting until the end for the queen king and octopus isn't such a bad idea because of what dragon of lore said refuting my idea. I'll have to give it a try some time soon. At least all this alap 5 work has gotten my meteor time down to 5:40

I don't think it's 2730. I've been at 2900 and couldn't even knock her over. I think at around 3150 or something, she can be rolled up without knocking her over first.

i should repeat that i have no idea if i was correct, nor have i tested it :P

it probably wouldnt be a bad idea to grab up king and queen since they have an annoying tendancy to run away frome me :( just have to worry about size changes

That was a mistake, slo meant 2730 meters. Anyway I think it cant be rolled up, but knocked at that size.