Allow me to begin with two truths:

Social norms are defined by morality. What people consider normal is based primarily on what they consider right or wrong. Most of culture in the Dark Ages was defined by Catholic doctrine, for example.

Morality is defined by social norms. Concepts of right or wrong are established through the cumulative belief of the populace. Slavery was normal in colonial America, and thus was considered moral at the time.

Now, take a look at the first sentence of those two paragraphs, and we see something interesting: morality and social norms are both self-causing. Remove both from the equation, and all that remains to influence the populace is the will of authority figures.

Now, here's where things get interesting. Social norms are based primarily on the concepts of right and wrong. However, authority figures occasionally come in and lay down a trump card to prevent something. The social norm says no, and then morality says no. Eventually this inhibition enters the sociomoral feedback loop.

Now, it takes a whole lot of damage to take something out of the feedback loop. History so far has presented this damage in the form of cataclysmic wars over idealogy. However, it can safely be said that inhibitions go into the loop faster than they get pulled out.

Think about where that eventually leaves us. Soon, anything that is not part of a strict and narrow path becomes immoral or abnormal. Fighting the social norms seldom work, as authority figures enforce things. Thus, if one is to ensure their freedom, they must defy the moral standard. Adherence to morality is nothing more than submission to tyranny.

Any thoughts on my insomnia-induced observation?

what would defying the moral standards do? when moral standards are not only placed by the people with most power and the "social norms" for infact practically everywere the basic morals are all the same, and even in yourself you have basic moralities and beliefes, defying them would only cause problem to yourself and others.. you would have to explain this more please

Also, Normal and Moralities are not the same things.

I don't quite remember where I was going at the time, but I think my logic toward the end was that the best way to ensure freedom is to practice it.

I didn't say normal and moralities are the same thing. I said Social Norms and Morality. Social Norms are what a society considers acceptable, which is based on morality. Morality is what people consider right or wrong, which is based on social norms.

Get me now?

Yes but it still has flaw, just because it is against morality doesnt mean people of that norm wont do it, stealing killing and other things such as that are very sinful and yet very popular here,

But no, I still dont really see the point, but thats ok..somtimes I confuse myself :lol:

I think I get what you mean. It kinda reminds me of V for Vendetta - the book, at least, I never saw the movie.


And just because something is common doesn't put it inside the pale; society has a need for taboos, otherwise there wouldn't be anything 'outside' to be 'inside' from, or to make people feel cool because they're ‘outside‘.

If that makes any sense?

Or, in the case of many things, people need outsiders to make themselves feel united. In school, they create these outsiders, and by mutually pushing them down, create a sense of togetherness. Same thing, really. At least, almost...

I still think it comes down to the individual decisions. The "social norm" is what a general populous thinks to be right but Morale/ morals is more based internally. Let me give you an example. One person can be Non Violent no matter and thinks it's wrong to kill their intire life. That's part of the social norm that was projected onto them. Now let's say that someone was killed in thier family such as their mother or their daughter was raped and that person knows the individual that did it. Now what would that person morals be?

At that case in point in time the social norm is thrown out and the persons inner Morals and principals is put into play. Should the person kill them to justify what has happened. There's the cross and breaking link right there. A single person's Morality is different from the social norm, simply because the social norm is based off individual concepts of what is considered right. Which is a groad generilization of what "people" think. The stand alone term "moral" is more of what a person considers their morals and prinicpals. Coming to their own distint judgement.

Yes, every soceity is different, and their culture also influences their morals.

For example, we have a soceity that is dedicated to true love, and love in general. Someone commits Adultery, and they go on trial. Since the culture they have is very dedicated to true love, they may have a punishment for such an act, ranging from years in prison, or perhaps even death.

A indivdual person has their own rights and wrongs as well. They may love the look of fear and hatered in the person's eyes before they die, if they were a killer. We consider this to be wrong and sick, but the killer doesn't. The killer may love the sight of blood, while most other people find it sickening. He/she considers it to be beautiful, maybe even addicting or attractive to them. The general population would consider this person to be insane, when in fact that is what the individual considers a norm.

Some people might even be masochist, and they may fall in love with people who hurt or abuse them, and in our soceity, that isn't a norm. Those people are called strange, weird, and people may even fear them. We try our best to stay within our norm, and we sometimes weed out the strange ones. The 'weird' ones we call weird today and are trying to weed out in our soceity, are Gays/Lesbions.

However, most of the normal people don't realize, is that in the 'Weird' ones minds, the regular people themselves are considered weird. If the Outcasts from a certain culture create their own culture, then the culture they first came from will think that the Outcasts' own culture is very weird, and vice virsa.

As Dark Genral said before, it all depends on someone's indivdial decsions, and the 'social norm'.